Addai of Alexandria

2007-01-31T07:58:00.000-08:00

Another Big Fat Coptic Wedding

I'm posting some photos of our wedding last Saturday Jan 20th. More to come (my uncle Andy is lightening some that are a bit too dark)

(I use the word "another" in deference to the first "Big fat Coptic Wedding" site)
http://www.ourbigfatcopticwedding.com/

Also we had a really nice honeymoon here (unfortately we didn't really get around to trying to snap shots till the end and they didn't turn out due to a low battery on Gina's camera), but through the magic of the internet you can get an idea of what Solvang looks like with sites like this one.

http://totalescape.com/destin/all_towns/solvang.html

2007-01-31T07:56:00.000-08:00

2007-01-31T06:29:00.000-08:00

2007-01-31T06:24:00.000-08:00

2007-01-31T06:18:00.000-08:00

2006-10-23T16:13:00.000-07:00

Blog Plan's

We'll a few minutes ago I posted this

"I think I'm going to be disengaging from the online discussion world. I got other things I want to do and work on... Thanks all for visiting here!" But I've had some second thoughts.... (I'm actually really interested in doing Bible study and commentary and that is one of the things I really want to do with my time in the future).

So anyway I guess I'm going to try that. This is something that I did try before, but seemed to flop (almost no apparent interest). I was however encouraged by this post from "The Jolly Blogger"

Blog Posting Frequency Doesn't Matter Anymore
http://jollyblogger.typepad.com/jollyblogger/

Anyway I'm going to probably be reformating this blog in the future.

2006-10-14T16:17:00.000-07:00

Blogos

Come visit Blogos, the Blog of our own multi-talented church deacon, Anthony Aboseif. This is probably the real SuperCoptofragelistic blog (Since he's a cradle and very, very active in the Church).

http://blog.aboseif.com/

2006-10-09T18:13:00.000-07:00

"You are a Lutheran: 18 things you didn't know you believed"

I found this piece while looking at the internet and decided to file it away... Because I have Lutheran parents and just know they would describe some of these things as "Catholic" (in the bad sense of the word), especially if they saw me do or advocate them! Anyway its worth looking at if you have any Lutheran friends you discuss spiritual matters with in real or online life.

http://orrologion.blogspot.com/2006/02/you-are-lutheran-18-things-you-didnt.html

2006-09-27T17:23:00.000-07:00

More

2006-09-27T17:14:00.000-07:00

More pics

another of Gina and I, and one of Gina with roomate Eileen (hope I spelled that right)

2006-09-27T16:33:00.000-07:00

Initial ring blessing pics

We had the blessing of the rings ceremony yesterday. So we are ceremonially official. Many of the pics didn't turn out, I'm having a friend work on some that are too dark, so will post more later

2006-09-20T04:14:00.000-07:00

Micheal Jordan endorses Holy Chocolate!

I just got the word from Fr. Stan that Michael Jordan endorses our product, although I don't have a quote yet.

He had a funny joke to go with the news, "Here is a man who I can say I walked a mile in his shoes!" (Stan use to by the "Air Jordan" shoe)

2006-09-16T11:38:00.000-07:00

(Christiainity today article)

Delighted by doctrine

Historian Jaroslav Pelikan (1923-2006) thought theology was too important to be left to the theologians.

When Jaroslav Pelikan died at age 82 on May 13, 2006, the world of Christian scholarship lost its greatest living advocate and the best church historian America has ever produced. Words like "greatest" and "best" are frequently used in a loose manner simply to say something nice about someone—but in the case of Jary, as his friends called him, they are really true.

http://www.christianitytoday.com/ch/2006/003/2.43.html

2006-09-14T06:09:00.000-07:00

Currently looking for these

but looking for something less expensive (this set which I like is over $500!, because it plated with real gold. I would like to get something like this that is however completely fake and for a small fraction of that cost..... So anyway if anyone has any good leads let me know!)

2006-09-13T05:56:00.000-07:00

I Believe in Phlifterofftenopf!

"The Jolly Blogger" made me laugh this morning! It's stuff like this and some of his insightful and more serious articles that keep me coming back to that blog. This post should make those familar with the movement laugh (unless they are uber supporters that is), and will show some of the more cradle Orth viewers some of the bizarre logic that is present in contemporay Evangelicism.

David Fairchild from Kaleo Church San Diego and The Peregrine Pastor interviewed Dieter about the new "technoemergent rev." Apparently David asked a bunch of questions which Dieter answered through a combination of mime and sign language. These answers were then analyzed and interpreted and sent to David. Here is one section of Dieter's thoughts:

(Clickenzie Der Peregrine pastor Linken!) :)

2006-09-08T15:34:00.000-07:00

Holy Chocolate shuts out the competition in Hot Chocolate shoot out, of "Cookie Magazine"

Don't think there's an online story (At least not yet). But we just received the news that we were reviewed by this magazine and won.

http://www.cookiemag.com/magazine

2006-08-31T02:16:00.000-07:00

"A Well Spoken and ForthrightTestimony"

I read some Orthodox testimonies recently and ran acrossed this articulate bit of testimony.....

"Doubt Unspoken

In the heights of my faith there have been strong streaks of doubt and questioning. Is the Bible really the Word of God? Did Jesus really do the things claimed for him in the Gospels? Are we completely wrong? After all, we don't hesitate to declare everyone else wrong. Some Christians, in an effort to sustain their reputation in Church, simply show unflinching doubt towards the world. When confronted by a pained Christian conscience, they simply say, "Don't worry about it. God has a wonderful plan for your life! The answers will come later." Comfort. But, as with Job's helpers, there are underlying messages. Pity that your faith is so weak. One day it may be as strong as my own.

Honest searchers, still committed to their churches, smile and carry on, finding what they can in the diet of books on offer. Some questioners, rebuffed by other believers, lose faith altogether. It is no secret, for example, that a sizeable number of secular humanists in America were once committed Southern Baptists.

This tension is also seen in our forms of church worship. Whether we realise it or not, our attitude and assumptions are lived out when we assemble. Sitting from a piano stool, leading worship, I have tried to understand what is going on. Although there is a great variety and style within Evangelical worship, whether it be Lutheran hymns or Charismatic choruses, common assumptions run throughout most of it.

In the worship of the hymn, our faith is found cerebral, celebrating the systematic theology of the Reformers in well measured stanzas, expressions that approach a reflection of the natural order of the world. The exposition of the Word of God as sung, regardless if comprehended, offers an assurance that we are squarely in the realm of Romans and thoroughly understand the mechanics of justification and sanctification.

In the worship of the chorus, the passion of our relationship with God is expressed in full rawness as we encounter the Divine. Through a liberation of the emotions we enter beyond the veil, us and God, face to face and soul to soul.

And, of course, there are mixes of these two styles which criss-cross our churches. Many examples go beyond these admitted stereotypes.

What undergirds both of these styles of worship is an assumption that we personally approach God and His Truth without veils. For the hymnodist, we sing the words of the Bible and its message, directly participating in Words of God. For the Charismatic, we directly touch and feel the presence of God through a worship of heightened emotion. Both of these forms of worship are incredibly beautiful and creative. Yet the way we do it commonly assumes, not always, but most times, an approach to God that has gone beyond the barrier experienced by other less fortunate souls. Instead of the ritual and tradition of Catholics, we know God personally. Our worship is different than anyone else because we have gone beyond the veil.

For those of us in an intense Evangelical community, to question whether our worship really is a direct connection to God or His Truth is to question the relation of the entire community to God. Rightfully so, for if an Israelite had dared challenge aspects of the liturgy surrounding the Temple, he too would have been seen as questioning the position of Israel as the people of God.
Our worshipful insistence on our personal relationship with God makes it difficult to admit we really don't know God on the level we claim. Most of us grope in the dark yet are compelled to talk about a daily walk with God that is as familiar as that with our best friends. For all our effort to know God, we often have a closer and more personal relationship with each other. But we are part of a community who confess direct access to Truth. If a person would simply be objective and honest enough with the Bible, they would see things the same way is one of our implied attitudes."

http://www.orthodoxinfo.com/inquirers/kalvesm1.aspx

2006-08-27T17:16:00.000-07:00

The Benbow Inn

Stan turned me on to this place, as a potential honeymoon spot. He thinks they might carry our chocolate, and if so might "give me a good deal" (In the hospitality and food industry merchants tend to give freebies and discounts to other merchants and professionals that they do business with).

Anyway this place seems like it pretty highly rated if you read reviews from some Northern California papers and critics (like San Francisco Examiner).

http://www.benbowinn.com/benbow_inn.html

2006-08-19T15:46:00.000-07:00

(So good it's worth quoting the whole section of this chapter) "The Composition and Structure of the Eucharistic Community as Reflections of Catholicity", John D. Zizioulas

"With such a view of the eucharistic community in the background it would have been impossible for the composition and the structure of this community to be different from what it actually was in the first two centuries. A different composition and structure would mean a different ecclesiology. It is, therefore, important for us in order to understand this ecclesiology, especially as it concerns the aspect of "catholicity" to bear in mind this composition and structure.

As a combination of the existing fragmentary liturgical evidence of the first few centuries allows us to know, the "whole Church", "dwelling in a certain city" would "come together" mainly on a Sunday to "break bread". This synaxis would be the only one in that particular place in the sense that it would include the "whole Church". This fact, which is not usually noted by historians, is of paramount ecclesiological significance, for it immediately draws the line of demarcation between the Christian and non Christian pattern of unity at the time of the early Church.

Coming together in brotherly love was certainly not a Christian innovation. In the Roman empire it was so common to form associations that there was need to form special laws concerning such associations signified under under the name of collegia. The brotherly love which prevailed among the members of them of the collegia was so strong and organized that each one of them would contribute monthly to a common fund and would address the others members by the title "brethren" (fratres, sodales. socii). Apart from the pagans, the Jews who lived in the Roman Empire were also organized into special communities with an athnarch and their brotherly love was so strong that in special groups like the Essenes, it was based on principles of common property. To speak, therefore, of the unity of the early Christians in termsof brotherly love would be to miss the unique point of this unity and perhaps even to expose the comparison from which it would certainly not gain much especially in light of such evidence as that provided by texts like Gal. 5:5, 1 Cor. 11:21, etc. !

2006-08-17T07:35:00.000-07:00

Zizioulous nuggets 2) The "Catholic" nature of the Church (meaning both the overall "Universal" Church and simultaneous a local body of believers)

"Already in the book of the Didache in the later first or early second century the idea was clearly expressed that in the celebration of the eucharist the Church experiences that which is promised for the Parousia, namely the eschatalogical unity of all in Christ: "Just as this loaf was scattered all over the mountains and having been made one, so let the Church be gathered together from the ends of the earth in your Kingdom." This conviction was not irrelevant in the application of the term "catholic Church" to the local community. It was a clear indication that, although the catholicity of the Church is ultimately an eschatological reality, it's nature is revealed and realistically apprehended here and now in the eucharist. The eucharist understood primarily not as a thing and an objectified means of grace but as an act and a synaxis of the local Church, a "catholic" act of a "catholic" Church, can, therefore, be of importance in any attempt to understand the catholicity of the Church.

2006-08-17T06:00:00.000-07:00

Zizioulous nuggets 1) The difference between "the individual" and "the personal"

You know "Being as Communion" was somewhat hard to to get into, but on the other hand not as bad as as some other Orthodox writers, most notably stuff written by Orlapubs / "Orchid Land Publications". And boy is it starting to get good (once I got to chapter 3)! So I'm going to start offering up some nuggets of interesting things mentioned in the book.

"There is no charismata that can be possesed individually and yet there is no charisma which can be conceived or operated but by individuals. How can this be understood?

Here I think we must seek illumination from a fundamental distinction between the individual and the personal. The distinction has already been made by more than one philosophy but it has been seldom applied to theological problems such as presented by Ecclesiolgy. And yet the paradox of the incorporation of the "many" into the "one" on which the eucharistic community, as we have seen, and perhaps the entire mystery of the Church are based can only be understood in the categories of personal existence. The individual represents a category that represents seperation and division. "Individuality makes its appearance by its differentiation from other individualities." The person represents a category that presupposes unity with other persons. The eucharistic community, and the Church in general, as a communion (koinonia) can only be understood in the categories of personal existence.

2006-08-16T15:59:00.000-07:00

Currently reading "Being as Communion"

I am currently reading my roomates recently purchased "Being as Communion", John Zizioulas’

This book played a profound role in the life of Clark Carlton in his testimony "From First Baptist to the First Century:A Spiritual Journey" "Without question, however, the single most important book involved in my conversion to Holy Orthodoxy was John Zizioulas’ Being as Communion.11 This is also probably the most difficult book I have ever read. I had to read the first chapter three times before I even began to understand it. And yet, as I began to get a handle on what Zizioulas was saying, I realized that if he was even partially correct, I could no longer remain a Protestant-much less a free-church Baptist."

http://holytrinity.ok.goarch.org/Interesting%20Stuff/tca_carltonfirstbaptist.htm

That testimony itself I think provides a great "Cliff notes" to the book. I would relate to what the previous author mentioned about this book and describe it as being "more profound in it implications than its execution" (It is not one of the thought provoking easy reads that Kallistos Ware and other contemporary Orthodox writers have been spoiling us with the last few decades).

John Zizioulas
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Zizioulas

2006-08-15T17:38:00.000-07:00

Paradosis reviews a "Heretics Guide to Eternity"

As Gina mentioned on an ooze discussion board, the Orthodox Blogger, Paradosis was asked to review postmodern (evangelical) Church leader, Spencer Burke (of theooze fame) new book. And the review sounds promising (although not altogether suprising). Anyway he just started doing it, so I invite you to read along with me the next few weeks.

http://paradosis.blogspot.com/2006/08/off-cuff-initial-book-reveiw-not-too.html#comments

2006-08-11T18:06:00.000-07:00

First Celebrity endorsement of Holy Chocolate, Natalie Cole
I don't have a full quote yet but one statement was "I just love Holy Chocolate!"

(This is the first fruit of a PR firm Fr. Stan hired a few months back we sent out celebrity gift packs over a month ago)

http://www.cbn.com/cbnmusic/interviews/700club_nataliecole.aspx

2006-08-02T16:48:00.000-07:00

Bill's Church thang

A hometown friend, William Squier, has been working on a church web content manager to sell to churches (I think with some other services) with my other hometown friend (Fr.) Stan Smith.

And so far this is what they got

http://70.87.90.226/~demo/

I've been thinking the last few months of having an unofficial St. George Coptic web site. And of course even maybe doing an "ooze" alternative site a few months ago. Anyway I think this really would give me a lot of what I would want. I've really wanted an easy access way of posting sermons, music, video etc. from church and making it available on the web. Anyway take a look!

2006-07-31T16:18:00.000-07:00

A funeral chant for the recently departed of Blogoslavia

A month or two ago Justin Martyr retired his blog. And now James Nee of Neepeople.com has ended his 3 year plus run, (I think there may be a few others as well, but less familiar with the other Orthodox or Orth friendly blogs). We salute our recently departed saints, and wish them well in the online afterlife. May there blessings and prayers be with us all Ameen! :)

(I've actually considered doing something similar. But decided to keep the Blog for personal life update things. I may have more of a regular web site in the future. With more polished essays but less updates. But I'm pretty much riding my internet savvy friends coatails on their projects so we will see.....)

2006-07-27T20:17:00.000-07:00

Some Honeymoon sights I'm thinking about

http://www.solvangca.com/

(more to come...)

2006-07-19T23:05:00.000-07:00

Our Engagement (western)

I got engaged tonight. We had dinner at this place, "The Brookdale lodge"

The Brookdale lodge
"The original Lodge was built in 1890 by Horrace Cotton at a lumber mill site in the Santa Cruz Mountains. In the early 1920s, Dr. F.K. Camp added the dining room with the natural trout-stocked mountain brook running right through it. Trees, ferns and other foliage continue to grow under the large atrium skylight. The round window was lit at night to look like moonlight through the trees. Horseshoes from the old mill were welded into lanterns. A wishing well near the entrance collected coins for Crippled Children. The stream was lit at night with underwater lights. Bird cages are also visible in many postcards.
Famous bands and singers of the Swing Era performed here. Movie stars and diplomats visited often. The fireplace, dance floor, bandstand and more tables were to the left of the brook. The founder and original owner didn't allow alcohol on the premises. The advertising slogans included: "In All the World, Nothing Like It" and "In the heart of Big Tree Country... Come linger with us and listen to the brook singing merrily through our dining room. Known all over the world."
In the 1940s, the Lodge fell into disrepair after the founder died and there were rumors of Mob involvement, secret passageways, hidden rooms and bodies buried beneath the floor. The niece of Dr. Camp drowned in the dining room creek and sightings of her ghost became part of Brookdale's legend. In the 1950s, a fire destroyed the Dining Hall and it was remodeled in more of a Hansel & Gretel theme. During this time, much of the campground was paved for a massive parking lot. A more sensitive restoration took place in the early 1990s."

http://www.brookdalelodge.com/

We however are due to have our formal Coptic engagement ceremony, which I think will happen in six weeks (When my uncle Hans comes over from Germany to visit us).

So I have been studying up on this web site, "My Big Fat Coptic Wedding", which shows not only wedding photos etc. but the engagement service as well.

http://www.ourbigfatcopticwedding.com/

But anyway see Gina's blog for photos which I'm sure will be posted in the next day or two after she recovers from surgery.
http://erud-awakening.blogspot.com/

2006-07-06T18:24:00.000-07:00

Desert Prayer With Egyptian Roots

(found this article online it mentions the monastary near Barstow and looks interesting so thought I would link).

"Life at North America's only Coptic Orthodox monastery is rigorous and strictly for worship. It draws those who seek a deeper insight into Christianity...."

http://freecopts.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=194&Itemid=42

2006-07-01T11:32:00.000-07:00

The Joy of Netflicks like companies

recently I joined Blockbusters netflicks copycat program, as a movie source for Gina nights. I really like it, you save so much more money than by renting movies from the local vid store (easily 3-6 times what regular rental fees are, depending on how fast you mail back the movies you watch, and post office logistics), and of course you save some time as well.

When it comes to service provided, I don't know if Block buster is really that much better than netflicks original program. There are some cult TV shows I like (i.e. "Strangers with Candy", that are hard to rent, but most programs and movies I've look for have been readily available. So Netflicks may be a little better on availability based on hearsay. There are a few things that Blockbuster did do that sealed the deal for me...

1) give a free 1st month's members (which I've really taken advantage of so far) and

2) made it extremely, extremely easy to get signed up for the program

and even bigger.....

3) issue every member 1 free movie rental coupon every week. (Where you basically printout from the web site a coupon with a scan bar code and take it down to your local block buster and check out a movie for free).

So far Gina and I have just started the fourth season of Babylon 5, watched a disk from the British sitcom DVD series "The Office", and last week watched one of my favorite war movies (a movie which is unique but a bit on the uncommon, hard to find side) "The Beast".

review of "The Beast"

http://acrentropy.blogspot.com/2004/11/review-beast-1988.html

2006-06-20T13:01:00.000-07:00

72 Expressions of the Divine

While doing some reading on the subject of discernment terminology, I happened on this article, from a group that looks fairly heretical. However there is some good info here.

http://www.keysofenoch.org/html/hebrew-aramaic.html

I for instance from time to time, like to read articles on Judaism, especially when thinking about either the old testament or things going on during the time of Jesus. When reading those articles the term "Hashem" pops up all the time, but I always forget what it means. So this article reminded me of that and a few others as well.

2006-06-16T11:07:00.000-07:00

Getting back on track, "The Difference of Discernment and Judgement"

I decided to get back to this, but not make it so incredibly complicated and thorough due to recently acquiring a short attention span from many recent life expriences. So fortately or unfortately, I'm going to do it the easy way, and make this as simple as possible.

My thesis is that there is a great difference between the two, even though the two may look a like on the surface, or even be one in the same in the mind of many people.

So my thesis is essentially this. Here is the difference.

Discerment - perceiving true from false, "right from wrong", spiritual from carnal etc. for the purpose of avoiding error, danger etc. It is or can be the imposition of a moral standard, but in a way that is aimed not at condemning a person, but rather at aimed making some form of "Behavioral intervention", to help the person, protect the rest of the flock that may be harmed by the behavior, bad example etc.

Judgement - like discerning involves right and wrong perceptions, decision making. However the goal simply seems to be condemn the person. There is little or no desire to actually redeem the person etc. simply a desire to exact vengeance, punish sin etc.

So the distinction is one of both purpose and affect. Is the action simply about "Stoning sinners" for some wrong doing, or is this action taken to protect the local congregation, the Church's teaching etc

Furthermore what are the long term affects? I really believe in our Laizze Faire pluralistic society, there really has been a lot of deliberate blurring of these two concepts because that old saying from the pop psych book, "I'm Ok your OK", really has become part of our culture (basically all beliefs, creeds etc. should be seen as equally valid and so on). And many times people make false analogy comparisions to events in peoples lives to things in the Bible. "The false analogy is that the person says "They are being judged" because someone frowns at them for something that are advocating, have done etc. meanwhile the verses that are quoted in the NT often refer to people not being chided for misbehavior, advocating dubious things etc. but actually in danger of being put to death for their alleged offenses! So there often can be some serious "Godwin's Law" breaking going on.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin

I will try to develope out or explain my points on this more hopefully in the future. I remember teaching on this a few years ago, before I formally converted to Orthodoxy. At the time, I did some missions/church plating work with my best friend. During that time there was a lady I knew who was part of our small congregation/ outreach. She was very Charismatic, she was also extremely pushy and judgemental in her own right. But she also considered herself a "prophetess" and said a lot of questionable things as revelation, which she defended fierceley. Any disagreement with her was based on "intellectualism" and "judgementalism" on my part.

While I had covered this topic before I decided to cover it extremely thoroughly because this lady was such a handful. And I found doing so was quite illuminating. One of things I did was do a detailed study of Biblical terminlogy which really really was quite invaluable to address all kinds of claims and charges she would bring up.

Anyway I'm having trouble finding some of the sources I used when I did that study but hope to find them again in the days ahead.

2006-06-15T20:36:00.000-07:00

Delivered From the Cruel Bondage of Egypt

30 minutes ago my computer escaped the cruel imprisonment of What is commonly called "Fry's Electronics Computer Repair Department".

(The joke if you don't get it is, the store like many Fry's stores is decorated around a theme. This store is done with an Egyptian King Tut one. It has all kinds of fake Egyptian statuary, wall relief paintings in the store etc. While a superstitious person might believe that going to an Egyptian themed store might actually be "Good luck" from the Coptic connection. Quite the opposite. Infact my experience resembles more the curse of Akhenaten).

Let's just say my computer was out of commision twice as long as it should have been, I spent twice as much money as I should have..... and if that wasn't enough..... The customomer service was so bad to be almost legendary (When I needed a new part, I or my best friend literally had to go to the store, and buy it and then give it to the technicians, because of stupid beaucratic rules that keep them from leaving their post picking it up themselves, and adding the cost to my tab. You know....like every other repair shop in the Freeworld does....).

Anyway I'm posting this to not only let you know where I've been the last week and a half but to express loud raspberries for that Franchise... and will therefore leave with a fitting quote.

"The Campbell store is built to resemble an Egyptian pyramid. Note the walkway up to the front entrance. This is actually a flatbed escalator. I think the idea is that as people stand on it, it appears that they are being magically drawn upwards to the temple's doors, bringing live sacrifice of cash and credit for Fry, the great electronic god of consumption and ignorance. "

Breakfast at Fry's

Some hate links with similar sagas

http://gshotts.com/HUMOR/BreakfastAtFrys/breakfas.htm

http://archive.salon.com/21st/feature/1998/05/cov_21feature2.html

http://www.accesscom.com/~dave6592/frys10.html

2006-06-06T16:06:00.000-07:00

Founding the first Coptic Church in the US

While surfing the net I ran acrossed this article which might be interesting to some people who are either Coptic or like to study the history of Orthodoxy in the States.

http://www.stmark-la.com/profile.html

2006-06-06T10:42:00.000-07:00

Perestroika

I've been thinking a lot about the ministry lately. In Protestant terms I've actually been thinking seriously about "Revivial", and "Outreach" (Of the sucess of Orthodoxy in inspiring Faith, Piety etc. for those outside of it). And I believe that God is leading me into a new area of ministry. From an internet apologist etc. to someone who works to evangelize and build community in a more positive way (As opposed to dwelling on what is wrong about this and that). Anyway I've decided to change "my philosophy of ministry",or mode of operations from here on out. And well I'm going to be doing somethings a bit differently, ending some past association.... but also restarting the Blog

So anyway if you see this blog completely empty later on today, that's why.

2006-06-02T07:13:00.000-07:00

The Role of Women in the Church
by Inas Michael

Some of you may be familiar with the that very fine article "Man,Women, and the Priesthood of Christ", by (Greek Orthodox bishop/writer) Kallistos Ware. Which details out why women are not ordained to the priesthood, the various historical, theological, biblical reasons for that, as well as covers the various areas where women have served in the Church.

Well here is a very similar Coptic 3 part article, that I found on the LA Copts web site... While the writing isn't as compelling as Ware, it does cover some new ground, or angles of the topic.

Part I
http://www.lacopts.org/index.php/site/entry/9/

Part II
http://www.lacopts.org/index.php/site/entry/8/

Part III
http://www.lacopts.org/index.php/site/entry/7/

2006-06-01T20:01:00.000-07:00

Sexuality within Marriage

While about the Blogosphere I came across this article written by a Catholic layman that is worthy of your consideration.

Sex, Sin and Salvation: What Augustine Really Said(lecture text) David G. Hunter, PhD

http://www.jknirp.com/aug3.htm

And While I'm at it I may as well repeat an article listed nearly a year ago on this blog

Family Planning by His Grace Bishop Serapion

http://www.lacopts.org/index.php/site/entry/43/

2006-05-25T06:58:00.000-07:00

Frederica Reviews The Da Vinci Code for National Review online

Here's a brief excerpt and link

"The movie’s premise, that the Church degraded St. Mary Magdalene and concealed her tomb, is such a whopper that it deprives the plot of traction; only the completely ignorant can maintain such extreme suspension of disbelief. St. Mary Magdalene was so beloved and admired that both Ephesus and Provence claim she spent her final years evangelizing among them, and her relics — far from hidden — were enshrined and venerated in both locations. She’s honored as a great saint, named patroness of churches and convents, pictured in icons and celebrated with liturgical hymns. How ignorant of history would you have to be to not know this?

So the movie’s plot is even more of a muddle than the book’s. (And as a friend told me, the book is so ahistorical that she had to pretend it was a sci-fi work about alternative reality to get through)."

http://www.frederica.com/writings/davinci-code.html

2006-05-18T06:35:00.000-07:00

Aramaic Christians II

I thought of some other links to add to this topic..

links

"The Ascetics Jive Palace"
http://www.geocities.com/mfignatius/index2.html

"East of the Euphrates:Early Christianity in Asia" by T.V. Philip
http://www.religion-online.org/showbook.asp?title=1553

Of Academic Interest
http://syrcom.cua.edu/Hugoye/
http://www.bethmardutho.org/

2006-05-17T12:52:00.000-07:00

Aramaic Christians

I Have to tip my hat to my sweetie for sending me a link that she got from"Justin Martyr's" blog. This is one of those favorite pet topics since not only do I love esoteric topics like this but I was actually in a church that's apostolic lineage was Aramaic/Syriac for a few years.

(hint- You may want to view this with Firefox instead of Internet explorer. There are some nice Aramaic music and slide shows apps that don't work on my machine when using Explorer but work just fine using Firefox.)

http://www.myspace.com/aramaicchristians

Some nice links on the subject...

Church/Bible history of the Aramaic Christians
http://www.aramnaharaim.org/english/aramean.htm

Syriac Orthodox Resources
http://sor.cua.edu/

Shoro online Syriac Christian Blog/magazine
http://www.socdigest.org/

2006-05-14T17:13:00.000-07:00

Which Super Hero are you? While thinking about much much more serious topics, and reading some blogs of various folks today I ran acrossed this tongue in cheek personality test.

http://www.seabreezecomputers.com/superhero/

And my results were #1 "You are Green Lantern. Hot-headed. You have strong
will power and a good imagination." (got a 95%), and #2 was Spiderman... (90% score).

So I thought I would include it here for some light hearted enjoyment.

2006-05-13T10:46:00.000-07:00

The Difference Between Discernment and judgement continued..

The engineers perspective continued

This is one of those topics that seems kind of dry on paper when your thinking about how to go about talking about it. But I think it's really a "fun" topic. But then again I'm not only a son of the military industrial complex but a History Channel junkie as well (And I love military history a specially studying military history, weapons tech etc.). I love all the scheming behind a concept and looking "to get the most bang for the buck" that comes with this discipline.

But cutting to the chase...

What is the Engineers Perspective? It really the same perspective that a lot of us have if we are a "smart shopper". Namely the ability to buy or in this case construct something based on a number of important specifications, requirements or needs. My family for the last 20+ really has been into using the magazine "Consumer Reports" when it came to making some of those important big ticket item purchases especially for buying cars, but also some of the other houshold appliances. That magazine is the epitome of this sort of reasoning. Products are evaluated on a number of important dimensions based on cost, performance, reliability, overall cost to maintain, as well as comfort, safety ratings as well as various features. And each one given a rating on each area as well as an overall value rating on which product is the overall "best deal".

People who design and invent things also have to think this way as well. I think that may even the most true for people who work for the goverment, especially designing for the Department of Defense. When the navy, airforce, army, orders a new tank, fighter, bomber etc. they have a list of mandatory specifications that must be met.

Let take a bomber for example... Based on my recollections some of our famous bombers had minimum requirements as far as such things as their operative range (the total miles they can fly on a tank of gas), total bomb load, armor and defensive systems, type of radar, max speed, cost to produce and so on.

So anyway like the parable of the blindman and the elephant I achowledge that Truth can be a complex multi sided thing. And likewise, a discerning engineer, needs to carefully think out designing his project to optimize the best combination and ammount of needs and requirements. And I would also state one of the Orthodox maxims that we are created in "the Image of God". The things we do finitely tend to be shadows of God's infinite nature. (While there is sin that corrupts aspects of human nature, God has nevertheless given us some revelation about His own nature in the way he has created us).

Anyway bringing this back to the topic at hand. If we are really going to think about what the nature is regarding the nature of judgement, discernment, truth etc. We really needed to a few basic things and that will be the subject of my next post....

2006-05-11T14:46:00.000-07:00

Currently rereading this title

Paul Kirchner, Forgotten Fads and Fabulous Flops (Rhino Records, 1995)

We've all had those moments of brilliance, where some idea so astoundingly splendid and mind-bogglingly impressive that we can't believe no one else has ever thought of it pops into our head. You know, like pet rocks. Paper dresses. Instant fish kits. The "Interbang" (a cross between ? and ! to symbolize What the?!). Earring Magic Ken.
You get the idea. Okay, so maybe there are times when we're not such clever monkeys after all, and what seemed like a good idea at the time turns out to be a major dud, or forgotten within a year. Smell-O-Vision? Animal of the Month Club? The Amphicar (good on land and in the water)? Premature Burial Alarms?
The sad truth is that sometimes, we'll try anything that's neat and shiny and new. For, oh, five minutes. And that's where the fun comes in. This is a book composed solely of the most ridiculous fads to capture our attention, the most profound flops, the silliest patents, and the ideas that never got off the ground. Even the great geniuses had their off moments, such as Frank Lloyd Wright's Mile-High Building, Buckminster Fuller's Geodesic House (and Geodesic Bathroom, Geodesic Car, Triton City), Thomas Edison's Talking Doll, and Nikola Tesla's Death Ray.
Yes, this fascinating book covers the sublime and the ridiculous, with 237 pages devoted to hundreds of our finest moments as a tool-using, sentient, self-aware race. Numerous pictures and diagrams provide incontrovertible proof that -someone- thought that Reverend Moon's movie, Inchon, would be a success, or that goldfish swallowing was a smart and popular thing to do, or that Death Magazine would be a bestseller.
Air-cars. Coca-Cola wannabes. NEW COKE. (So good it deserves capital letters.) Failed celebrity franchise restaurants (such as Minnie Pearl's Chicken, Willie Mays Say-Hey Restaurants, and Tony Bennett's Spaghetti House.) Smokeless cigarettes. Kudzu.
Really, you'd think we'd learn better, after seeing what previous generations attempted. Rabage, a combination of cabbage and radish with none of the popularity. The Foot-Operated Breast-Enlarger Pump. Bird diapers.
Not everything in this book is completely useless. Some of it was just way ahead of its time, like the pneumatic subway, and picturephones. But then you get "No Frills Books," which were the ultimate manifestation of the generic concept. Entitled, simply, Science Fiction, Western, Romance, or Mystery, they delivered just that, using every cliche in the book.
Those who forget the past are doomed to fail when they inadvertently duplicate something already failed. Avoid Vietnam-styled theme parks, iceberg aircraft carriers, and women's urinals.
This book makes for truly fascinating reading, both out of morbid curiosity and genuine amusement. It's one of the finest looks at our least finest ideas that I've run across. Rhino Records seems to have an eye on culture and society, and they prove it here with Forgotten Fads and Fabulous Flops. Well-researched and cleverly written, it's like a time capsule of the damned.
Skunkguard. Trepanation. Rocket Belts. Forgotten bands of the San Francisco Sound (Blue Crumb Truck Factory, Immaculate Contraption, Fifty-foot Hose, and more!). Failed television shows like Huggy Bear and the Turkey, Weekend Nun, and Poochinski.
Wait. I remember Poochinski. Oh dear.
Anyway, this is one book that any pop culture fan will be glad to have, if just for the sheer giggles it's sure to create. But go ahead and laugh if you want, and say that we'll never be so foolish as to give in to fads like that, or ideas that awful.
Two words, bunkie.
Beanie Babies.
Have a nice day.
[Michael M. Jones]

from

http://www.greenmanreview.com/forgottenfads.html

2006-05-11T11:25:00.000-07:00

Keeping up with what's going on in Egypt

my favorite Catholic blogger has been keeping me abreast at what's going on in my Church's homeland.

http://italiancatholic.blogspot.com/2006/05/blogger-alaa-and-others-arrested-in.html

and Some other bits of news.

Egyptian Blogger & human rights activist, "Alaa" arrested (shown in picture to the right). She journals the blog, "Freedom for Egyptians".

http://freedomforegyptians.blogspot.com/

2006-05-08T15:00:00.000-07:00

Six Million African Muslims Convert to Christianity Each Year

Al-Jazeerah Website

http://www.orthodoxytoday.org/articles6/AlJazeerahAfrica.php

2006-05-08T10:01:00.000-07:00

ordination pics IV

2006-05-08T09:53:00.000-07:00

ordination pics III

2006-05-08T09:48:00.000-07:00

Ordination pics II

2006-05-08T08:12:00.000-07:00

The Difference Between Discernment and judgement coninued..

The engineers perspective.

I grew up the son of an engineer. A literal "rocket scientist" to be exact. My Father actually worked as a senior engineer for famous naval design base and testing station, known as "China Lake" which link is here.

http://www.nawcwpns.navy.mil/

Further I would even say I've got engineering "in my blood". When I take personality tests I tend to come up with engineering personality types. Like the INTJ (Scientist) for the myers briggs, or the investigator on the Enneagram. I think from not only from social conditioning growing up in a research and design community, but also in terms of basic inherited 'biological traits" there is something that really lends itself to this orientation.

I also believe that this is also true of God as well. When we review passages of the Bible dealing with such things as God as creator, Predestination and so on. It really looks like this is an aspect of God's personality, temperment, character etc.

2006-05-07T13:15:00.000-07:00

Suprise Deaconation

I was ordained a "deacon" today. Technically speaking I think I am a "epsaltos", which is described in the bottom link.

Photos will be edited in when they are posted on the church web site or emailed to me. (This one does give you an idea what Coptic deacons look like).

http://saintabanoub.org/module-pagesetter-viewpub-tid-1-pid-158-page-3.html

2006-05-06T11:28:00.000-07:00

Christianity Today covers St. Athanasius

Linking to the exact article screws up my format, but you can find it somewhere on the general site, which I have linked here.

http://www.christianitytoday.com/

excerpt

"Those who maintain 'There was a time when the Son was not' rob God of his Word, like plunderers."

"Black Dwarf" was the tag his enemies gave him. And the short, dark-skinned Egyptian bishop had plenty of enemies. He was exiled five times by four Roman emperors, spending 17 of the 45 years he served as bishop of Alexandria in exile. Yet in the end, his theological enemies were "exiled" from the church's teaching, and it is Athanasius's writings that shaped the future of the church...

2006-05-06T08:11:00.000-07:00

The Difference Between Discernment and judgement

I've been thinking a lot about this issue lately, especially in light of some recent conversations over the last few months. This was an issue I first really explored as a Charismatic when I encoutered some things said by various famous preachers that didn't jive, and I decided to really to do a thorough and detailed hard look about what the Bible says on the subject. And then later on I ran acrossed "post modern" Christians and issue came up again, and this has especially recently in light of issues of Christian morality and so on....

Basically stated the problem is: people tend to over generalize the term of "judging", as in the scripture that says "Judge not lest yee be judged" and they tend to apply it to all areas of discernment, applying church discipline etc. Far out reaching even the way the disciples who first received that instruction ever understood it to mean.

So for the week, maybe even two weeks I'm going to be writing down all the stuff I've studied and learned on this issue over the years.

INTRODUCTION

When I thought about how I should handle this topic over the last few hours, I decided to do this according to a autobiographical, developemental model. My brain basically works that way, as far as thinking back historically of what caused me to believe this and that, at this time and that. And of course "narratives" are all the rage in some circles where I use to hang out. So I'm basically taking a "Developmental model", hearkening back to my old psychology days. Where I talk about different times/ stages of developement in my life, what happened and so on...

One issue that I came to realize today is one big factor that first gave me an awareness of the need for discernment was my former background as a Lutheran. Specifically speaking my very long catechismal instruction when my parents and I joined the Wisconsin Evangelical Synod (or WELS) back in the end of the 1970s. At that time, I had a very long and ardous confirmation class (due to the fact that we lived a good 100 miles from the nearest WELs church). And at the time, as an adolescent both me and fellow student tended to get sick all of the time. Between communting and getting sick my confirmation lasted about 3 times longer than usual, which was really significant at the time; because preparing for confirmation classes really cut into my fun time! Which as a kid I naturally resented. In retrospect however I realize that my overly long catechism class was a blessing in disguise.

Here is an example of an online catechsim of my former denomination

http://www.wels.net/cgi-bin/site.pl?2617&collectionID=711&contentID=4333&shortcutID=2076

"The blessing in disguise", part, that I mentioned yesterday came from me learning unwittingly about a kind of "Common sense" philosophy about the Bible and ministry. Specifically Lutheran's realized that there was a certain ammount of "dynamic tension" in the Bible, and on various issues. They realized that there could be some complexity there, and at times a person could be in a situation where there one scripture might suggest one course of action and another a different one. So the Lutheran way was not to pick one scripture and base your decision on that but rather to consider the Bible as a whole, consider all the scriptures on the given issue. But not just that, think about other issues that are also tangental, or possibly could also affect one's policy.

So when it comes to the nature of "reality" on an issue I would say the Lutheran (as well as Orthodox etc.) view, would mirror that of the famous parable of

“Six Blind Men and An Elephant”

http://www.uiowa.edu/~cyberlaw/csl03/blindmen.html

This parable, however, would also be endorsed by other groups that I disagree with. Emergent and postmodern ones also endorse it. In my next post, (Which will be a brand new post, probably to not make overly long scrollers). I will talk about the "engineers perspective" when it comes to Truth, achomplishing objectives, setting sensible policy and so on. Because I think it is that view, when combined with such ideas like, dynamic tension, the blindmen and the elephant that sets, this view of the Bible apart from other belief systems that can have dubious credibilitity and reliability.

2006-05-01T22:43:00.000-07:00

Back to Matthew

The Birth of Jesus Christ

18This is how the birth of Jesus Christ came about: His mother Mary was pledged to be married to Joseph, but before they came together, she was found to be with child through the Holy Spirit. 19Because Joseph her husband was a righteous man and did not want to expose her to public disgrace, he had in mind to divorce her quietly.

Commentary

you know I've actually been talking very recently about this passage. And there are a lot of traditional reasons to talk about it. With it being relevant to Jesus being the messiah and meeting those prophecies, the Incarnation, yada, yada this and that.

You know the reason why I've been talking about it? Premaritial sex. There are some liberal Protestants who say that it's not wrong. I've actually had to site this verse as a verse that prooves that sex between premarried folks is wrong. Because I've heard some pretty convoluted "Situational Ethics" based reasons on the subject.

Anyway besides all the lofty deep theological meanings of this passage. It does say something to our current state of morality today. As I said to one young man on the internet, "If sex between engaged couples wasn't wrong, then why didn't Joseph fib a little and say that Mary and him hooked up a few months ago? After all she was in danger of being stoned for adultary, he could have easily provided her with an Alibi!" Furthermore there are some other godly biblical figures that have also lied to save a person they loved from death etc. so I don't think that such a unreasonable assumption.

St. Joseph however "decided to put her away quietly", as the King James said, precisely because he was a "righteous man". He was righteous in that he knew right from wrong (and knew the importance of chastity), but also was kind in his righteousness and that is the reason he wanted to put her away rather than have her be punished for what would normally be considered incontrovertable evidence of adultary (because marital fidelity was mandatory with the betrothal in that culture, even before the marriage was consumated). Unlike many people of today, St. Joseph wasn't nonchalant about such things.

2006-04-27T09:22:00.000-07:00

Politically Correct Lord's Prayer (Ok I'm still laughing at this joke published months back. It's so funny, yet so scary in its accuracy..).

Our (mis)Concept of Patriarchal Authority, who, it can be said, inhabits the metaphysical sphere, privileged be your signifier. May your social structure achieve dominance. May the enactment of your desire be manifested throughout the physical-metaphysical dichotomy. Empower us this day with the means of material production, And refuse to enforce sanctions against our behavior which some see as subversions of a moral perspective, just as we refuse to marginalize the moral perspectives of others who have exerted their individuality. Don't lead us into situations that some would (mis)understand as detrimental to the full expression of our humanness, but liberate us from the concept of "evil." For yours is the hegemony, and the dominance, and perceived mystification within the entire continuum of the Western concept of linear time.

from
St Matthew-in-the-City Anglican Church Auckland, Aotearoa New Zealand

2006-04-26T08:29:00.000-07:00

To Gina I offer this digital Swiss meat pie, for distinctive service in the field of girl friendery. :) (You will have to ignore a few mushrooms that they put in it however).

Actually I've been doing research , to get a handle on writings some new product descriptions for Holy Chocolate. And of course as you can guess I'm on the Swiss flavor...

So anyway after having some bouts of noninspiration, with whatever I tried to write sounded like a Ricola commercial stereotype... I finally decided to do some research to better understand swiss food & culture, especially the dairy theme that prevalent in their food. So anyway here a post that's more gourmet in nature for folks who've been bored some of the recent topics.

Here some articles I'm reading for inspiration and ideas when writing the new copy.

recipes/dishes (not really useful for Holy Chocolate purposes but I love reading and seeing cuisine from other counteries).
http://www.about.ch/culture/food/

Swiss Chocolate & Cheese (Milk is very important part of the flavor. And we use a very high quality pasteur fed cow milkmuch like the Swiss. So I'm looking for inspiration on that selling point).

http://www.schmerling.com/aboutchocolate2.asp

http://www.schmerling.com/aboutcheese2.asp

Explains How & Why Switzerland beccame a chocolate superpower
http://www.swissworld.org/eng/swissworld.html?siteSect=905&sid=4092990&cKey=1059987841000&rubricId=17125

2006-04-22T13:56:00.000-07:00

Kristos Anesti!

Christ Is Risen! Glorify Him!

(ok... so I'm a few hours early. :) )

http://www.agpeya.org/welookfortheresurrrection.mp3

2006-04-22T12:59:00.000-07:00

Symbolic Meaning of the Generations

Matthew 1:17 So all the generations from Abraham to David are fourteen generations, from David until the captivity in Babylon are fourteen generations, and from the captivity in Babylon until the Christ are fourteen generations.

You know I don't think I've read this bit of commentary anywhere. But one method of meaning from the scriptures comes from the symbolic meaning of various images, including numbers.

I will need to fact check here (will post later on this). But I recall Biblical "Higher Critics" have attacked the integrity of the scriptures because their are supposed to be "gaps" within the generations. Where some of Christ's ancestors got skipped, where the genealogy might actually skip a generation or two. (That part I need to fact check.) And they would claim this as "proof" that scriptures are not "inspired by God" (because they contain human errors etc.). Anyway as I stated I'm going to do a generational audit later. Such a thing breaks the usual integrity found in a genealogy.

Although there are some good reasons for this. Making it easier on the oral tradition caretaker who has to remember and pass this stuff. As well as the scribe who must dictate all this testimony.

Symbolism however I believe is the real reason behind. There are 14 sets of generations to each of the 3 great Ages leading to Christ. That is basically 7 sets of 6. In Biblical numerology "7" is the number of perfection and completeness, while "6" is the number of man, since Adam was created on that day. When you put it together you get the meaning that Christ's coming came during the perfect season/time for mankind. One Biblical term for this would be "The fullness of time". While still another would be the Greek term for time Kairon (for season), rather than Chronos (literal time, where we get words like "chronological" from.

Anyway my theory, if the Biblical Critics are right, is any ommision of ancestors of Christ made in the text was done deliberately. Either by the people righting the Gospel, of the God's hand of Providence. It would be comparable to such things as mentioning only 7 of Christ's miracles in the book of John, "The Gospel of All Ages". Or even how sacramental lists are drawn up by many of early churches. Where the gerrymander by making some sacraments defintions very very broad or narrow, etc. so they can come up with that magic number of seven at the end.

Anyway I'll see if I can find who if any got ommited from the official genealogy later.

2006-04-21T08:31:00.000-07:00

Apostolic Succesion, genealogy part 3

This idea of the three reasons stated functionf of the gnealogy of Christ naturally is the most controversial. But like my best friend always tells me, it's best "to define your terms at the start". So I will..... I've heard the term "The Church" as an "organic being", looked at "organically". Which is exactly what I'm thinking, and strangely enough many of the people who talk about the Church in "organic" terms strangely enough seem to be doing the opposite of what that term implies....

The word organic implies quiet literally that the Church is a "lifeform". That idea is expressed a number of times in scripture itself, where we refer to the Church as "The body of Christ", individual believers as "members" or "parts" of that body (like mouths, eyes, hands etc.). As an entity all the parts of the body must be unified. (This is the part of the body that is pretty much understood by everybody).

Bodies however are not just unified in their coherent structure. Bodies are also stable acrossed time. A person doesn't just start a baby one day, and tranfrom into a full grown adult in a blink of an eye. There is a continuity between what that body is one day, to the next day. So on and so on. Furthermore even when there is an obvious radical change in appearance. Like a skinny kid becomes very, very fat in later life. Their are some obvious characteristics that are the same throughout. That person has the same exact genetic ID that they did as a babe. They have the same exact face, voice etc. So even if they weigh 400 lbs more than they did 40 years ago, it still possible for other people to recongize them if they see those distinctive qualities.

In the Church this concept is fully understood in the term catholic. Catholic just doesnot refer to the Church everywhere. It also refers to the Church "at all times", even when the Church technically was the believing nation of Israel. So this term itself, besides that of "The Body of Christ" naturally implies an "organic" viewpoint of the Church. The Church basically grows from seed to mightly Oak in small incremental impercetebable stages acrossed time.

Ok so now at this point, you might be wondering what does this have to do with Apostolic Succession?

I would say "everything".

To start with I would say that many people who speak of an "organic" view of the Church, infact see it in a highly inorganci way. Meaning they believe the Church magically evolves organically from a kind of Holy Spirit driven Chaos theory. They however do not believe in any real need for a historic connection or unity with Christians of the past, their beliefs, practices etc. I would cite members of the Emergent/Postmodern "House Church movement" especially with this charge. They like to speak about being like "the First Christians", but their depiction of what that life was like ignores not only the testimony of Christians living in the next few centuries, but even things depicted in the Scriptures themselves (like the apostles worshipping and proclaiming the gospel at the synagogues, and temple). They basically are reading elements of the text of Ad 33-100 thinking they know the answers and time leaping forward to their current movement, bypassing everything that came in the middle. Not a very organic approach now is it?

And then you got Chaos theory.... It's really interesting if you look at the basic definition of "Emergence".

"Emergence is the process of complex pattern formation from simpler rules.
This can be a dynamic process (occurring over time), such as the evolution of the human body over thousands of successive generations; or emergence can happen over disparate size scales, such as the interactions between a great number of neurons producing a human brain capable of thought (even though the constituent neurons are not individually capable of thought). "

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergence

It really interesting for folks who are trying to come back to "the purity of the 1st Century Church" when this theory could actually explain the God Preordained "emergence" of areas of some of the things of the Church that they consider "pagan" like Ecumenical counsels, the role of the bishops, the importance of Christians meeting together for public worship and the alike. (Their own beliefs of seeing the Bible clearly in a tabula rasa way and believing they have a formula for creating an ideal church is actually very very modern).

Ok so what does this have to do with apostolic succession? Well I would say it has to do with some very fundamental notions that become part of that concept. The biggest is the importance of historical continuity. As I quoted before in this blog, from Tertullian

"But if there be any (heresies) which are bold enough to plant themselves in the midst of the apostolic age, that they may thereby seem to have been handed down by the apostles, because they existed in the time of the apostles, we can say: Let them produce the original records of their churches; let them unfold the roll of their BISHOPs, running down in due succession from the beginning in such a manner that [that first BISHOP of theirs] BISHOP shall be able to show for his ordainer and predecessor some one of the apostles or of apostolic men, ùa man, moreover, who continued stedfast with the apostles. For this is the manner in which the apostolic churches transmit their registers: as the church of Smyrna, which records that Polycarp was placed therein by John; as also the church of Rome, which makes Clement to have been ordained in like manner by Peter. In exactly the same way the other churches likewise exhibit (their several worthies), whom, as having been appointed to their episcopal places by apostles, they regard as transmitters of the apostolic seed. Let the heretics contrive something of the same kind. For after their blasphemy, what is there that is unlawful for them (to attempt)? But should they even effect the contrivance, they will not advance a step. For their very doctrine, after comparison with that of the apostles, will declare, by its own diversity and contrariety, that it had for its author neither an apostle nor an apostolic man;

Tertullian, "On Prescription against the Heretics",32 (c.A.D. 200),in ANF,III:258

You know it interesting Jesus is high priest "in the order of Melchizedek". The great priest of Aalem who had no known lineage. But even given that fact, Jesus lineage is still an issue when it relates to areas of his being messiah, and so is still is given in the text. I also believe Jesus' not having an Aaronic lineage was a necessary aspect of his ministry (It would be just about impossible to be God incarnate and be an Aaronic priest, since that precludes things like virgin births, immaculate conceptions etc.).

Anyway historic continuity has always been very central to both Judaism and Christianity. And even when you have some exceptions like Jesus as high priest of Melchizedek, the Apostle Paul becoming a great apostle inspite of not being one of original disciples etc. Anyway it's funny how even when you have an exception to the rule, the rule gets reinforced later; because the most sure way to bring in false teaching is to make a break with the past. Because doing so means you have no accountability whatsoever and can fashion the gospel anyway you see fit.

2006-04-18T10:48:00.000-07:00

Stirring up trouble

Your truely has been raising cane over this thread at Orthodoxchristianity.net

The Nature of Hell: Eternal or Not?

"Many will go to hell, but hell is not eternal...all will eventually be restored to Communion with God." (quoted from a Greek Orthodox Christian convert no less....)

Anyway its been both fun, and a good chance to sharpen my apologetics sword against a literal professing Origenist. Anyway its nice to know that when you get tired of "The Scandal of the Evangelical mind", there are a few "Orthodox" heretics that can give you a real run for your money! :)

2006-04-17T08:40:00.000-07:00

Jesus as Messiah, Genealogy part2

Out of the 3) reasons I listed earlier why the genealogy of Matthew was given, this second reason is the most cited. To the point is its basically a Trueism. Basically a statement that is commonly held as a given so much that to speak about it, can almost seem like stating the obvious. Like saying the sky is blue, the existence of gravity etc.

Even though doubtless this is the case. It's still worth looking into. Because we often only have a very superificial understanding of the meaning and significance concerning this important Jewish and Christian doctrine.

To cover the basic will quote from this article which seems like it has a decent coverage of the topic.

http://www.christiananswers.net/q-eden/edn-r004.html

"The word "Messiah" means "Anointed One," the name given to the promised Deliverer who would some day come to the people of Israel as their great Savior and Redeemer, "anointed" as Prophet, Priest, and King by God Himself."

............
The name "Christ" is the Greek equivalent of "Messiah," so that the name Jesus Christ really means "Jesus the Messiah," or "Jesus the anointed."

....

"The Old Testament Messianic prophecies were found to be uniquely fulfilled in the Lord Jesus Christ. There are hundreds of these prophecies, so that the possibility of their accidental convergence on any ordinary man is completely ruled out by the laws of probability."

......

"Similarly the promise was given to King David that the Messiah should be one of his descendants, as the King eternal, the one of whom God said, "I will establish the throne of his kingdom for ever" (II Samuel 7:13). Isaiah said, "There shall come forth a rod out of the stem (literally 'stump') of Jesse (that is David's father), and a Branch shall grow out of his roots" (Isaiah 11:1). This is another name of the Messiah, and indicates that, even after it would appear that the family tree of Jesse has been cut down, yet one Branch will grow out of the stump. Evidently the very last one who could be known to have come of this lineage would finally prove to be the promised Messiah!
This was fulfilled uniquely in Jesus. His foster father, Joseph, was in the royal line from David and thus held the legal right to the throne (Matthew 1:1-16). His mother, Mary, was also a descendant of David, as shown by her genealogy in Luke 3:23-31. But ever since the time of Jesus, it would be quite impossible to establish the legal or biological lineage of any pretender to David's throne, as all the ancient genealogical records were destroyed soon after that."

Addai commentary- It is also worth noting some of the ways Jesus is portrayed by contemporary protestants. Most notably now by Brain Mclaren, in the Secret Message of Jesus, where one Chapter is devoted to the idea of "Jesus the Revolutionary". My best friend Stan eloquently explained why this is a bad analogy. As he stated "Jesus was not a revolutionary! Jesus was the rightful king! King Herod was the person who didn't have the right to the throne (Because he had Greek blood and his family came to power during the time of Alexander the Great through conquest).

And as Gina so aptly quoted from her blog, from this web site Orthodixie:

"We must remember that for a few hours Christ was indeed King on earth in this world of ours, for a few hours only and in one city. But as in Lazarus we have recognised the image of each man, in this one city we acknowledge the mystical centre of the world and indeed of the whole of creation. For such is the biblical meaning of Jerusalem, the focal point of the whole history of salvation and redemption, the holy city of God's advent. Therefore, the Kingdom inaugurated in Jerusalem is a universal Kingdom, embracing in its perspective all men and the totality of creation. The entrance of Jesus into Jerusalem came at the end of the entire process of preparation revealed in the Bible: it was the end of all that God did for men. And thus this short hour of Christ's earthly triumph acquires an eternal meaning. It introduces the reality of the Kingdom into our time, into all hours, makes this Kingdom the meaning of time and its ultimate goal. The Kingdom was revealed in this world - from that hour - its presence judges and transforms human history. And at the most solemn moment of our liturgical celebration, when we receive from the priest a palm branch, we renew our oath to our King and confess His Kingdom as the ultimate meaning and content of our life. We confess that everything in our life and in the world belongs to Christ, nothing can be taken away from its sole real Owner, for there is no area of life in which He is not to rule, to save and to redeem. We proclaim the universal and total responsibility of the Church for human history and uphold her universal mission."

2006-04-15T20:13:00.000-07:00

Significance of the Genealogy, part 1

Rather than potentially boring some people with all the history, and literay criticism of the Gospel (especially when it comes to the original language it was composed in as far as Greek vs. Aramaic) I just decided to jump in and start talking about it.

So that brings us first of all to the genealogy. You know there is a lot of people who really don't know what to do with that. I especially recall that from my Protestant past, where the genealogies of both the Old and New Testaments were thought to be the most boring and potentially useless part of the text. I recall some people laughing and saying that if you had trouble sleeping at night you should read them. And a Charismatic preacher say, how if you really are a student of the Bible, or "in the Spirit" you will be blessed by everything......... even the genealogies!

Unfortately I think comments like that really show how we are in many ways alienated from the mentality and context of the Bible. As far as I can tell the genealogies serve at least 3 important functions.

I will only cover the first of these in this post.

The functions are: 1) Integral to the formation of Jewish and Christian idenity(to be explained later in this post),

2) establish Christ as the Jewish Messiah, 3) provide a background for future doctrine of Apostolic Sucession.

As far as the first function that I said was "integral to the formation Jewish and Christian idenity" that point came from a wonderful Rabinnic article I read 4 years ago online. And unfortately I have never been able to find since. But I will do my best to describe it to you. The article was on the Jewish passover Haggadah. I found it while searching for an articles on the passage "my father was a wandering Aramean". I had written a well received article on "The Kiss of Peace" for the web site the ooze and I was looking to maybe do a sequel on it. Where I talked about that verse, and how it was used liturgically by the Jews, and its potenial allegorical meanings. Anyway I found this great article. Called something like "Like Children and not slaves", written by a traditonal (non-Messianic) rabbai.

Anyway this article besides making some insightful comments about the Haggadah liturgy, and the part that verse played in it. It really said some wonderful things about the importance of genealogy, and lineage in the Jewish idenity, culture and Faith. The rabbai explained how genealogy and lineage were inextricably connected to Jewish idenity and Faith. Essentially everything a Jew did came because of the promises that Jews have received from God by promises made to their ancestors the patriarchs. A Jews entire idenity, and hope for a bright future came through that blood line. So rather seeing this as stuffy history, instead this reminds more of that passage of St. Paul that says Hebrews 11:1[ By Faith We Understand ] Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Moreover God said to Moses, “Thus you shall say to the children of Israel: ‘The LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you. This is My name forever, and this is My memorial to all generations.’Exodus 3:15

The author especially noted the sinister affect of slavery. Slavery usually meant erasing the lineage of those held captive. Because families were frequently seperated, children sold off to other households at a young age, women raped and so on, all to undermine the will of the captives. Anyway slavery frequently resulted in a loss of one's lineage. For a Jew this was devestating because the loss of both their temporal heritage (their claim to specific land and property In Israel) and their greater spiritual heritage (their tribal identification which has great signifcance ot both their culture and their faith i.e. - are they members of the priestly tribe of Levi where the priests and Levites came from. This even affected then learning about their very Faith itself). As the rabbai said, "to be a Jew without any knowledge of his heritage is to be a Jew cut off from any hope of the future". It's basically a kind of excommunication, a curse, a kind of orphanhood.

Anyway when we read the genealogies in the Bible, both here and the old Testament I really think that is the kind of thing to keep in mind when we think of why they are there and what purpose they serve. I will also submit later, that this severing of the past, equated with slavery in Judaism creates confusion in present day Christianity as well. But that will be a point to develope for another day....

2006-04-14T09:16:00.000-07:00

Splitting the Blog

I am seriously considering adding a new Blog. The basic idea is that I've been disillusioned with one web board that I was a frequent participant of. While I'm not completey giving up on it, I really gives me the impetus to crank away on more solo projects. Which I think can be a lot more substantive than what is typically found in cyberspace.

Anyway the idea is to spin this blog more in the area of serious study and discussion of the Bible, Liturgy, Church Fathers, Liturgy, doctrine, Church history, and the alike.

And then have another Blog which talks specifically about contemporary issues both in Orthodox and in the general American Evangelical climate.

So the basic idea is to try to add more substance to what is typically out there. As well as some more lasting material. One thing I've noticed about participating on a message board. It's like you can give the most brilliant well thought out presentation on something. And then someone new comes along.... And they bring up all the old issues you previously addressed. So there can be a lot of "wash" rinse" "repeat". Where it's almost like things said evaporate into thin air (unless you want to necro and copy and paste those old bits of wisdom which I often do). Anyway I like the fact that on Blogs each post gets saved and spidered seperately so I think there is more of a lasting influence on anything you do. So with that I think I'm going to take my blogging more in a serious direction. Not in the sense of being unfun, but in the sense of putting much more thought and work into it. Instead of the "Oh I found this new Coptic, or Orthodox thing! Isn't it neat!" way of doing things before.

2006-04-13T07:17:00.000-07:00

Aramaic Origons,

"He moreover hands down, in his own writing, other narratives given by the previously mentioned Aristion of the Lord's sayings, and the traditions of the presbyter John. For information on these points, we can merely refer our readers to the books themselves; but now, to the extracts already made, we shall add, as being a matter of primary importance, a tradition regarding Mark who wrote the Gospel, which he [Papias] has given in the following words]: And the presbyter said this. Mark having become the interpreter of Peter, wrote down accurately whatsoever he remembered. It was not, however, in exact order that he related the sayings or deeds of Christ. For he neither heard the Lord nor accompanied Him. But afterwards, as I said, he accompanied Peter, who accommodated his instructions to the necessities [of his hearers], but with no intention of giving a regular narrative of the Lord's sayings. Wherefore Mark made no mistake in thus writing some things as he remembered them. For of one thing he took especial care, not to omit anything he had heard, and not to put anything fictitious into the statements. [This is what is related by Papias regarding Mark; but with regard to Matthew he has made the following statements]: Matthew put together the oracles [of the Lord] in the Hebrew language, and each one interpreted them as best he could. [The same person uses proofs from the First Epistle of John, and from the Epistle of Peter in like manner. And he also gives another story of a woman who was accused of many sins before the Lord, which is to be fount in the Gospel according to the Hebrews.]"

Papias

(Addai Note - in early times Romans and Greeks typically named a language spoken by foreigners after the foreigners who spoke it and assumed this was their native language. This happened with the Greeks to Aramaens in Syria, the Greeks called their language "Syriac", which is a name that stuck. According to Josephus and other historical sources this also happened to the Hebrews with Aramaic which was their spoken language at the time. Both Romans and Greeks refered to this as "Hebrew". Since it was the language of the Hebrews at the time. But in most of these cases it is almost guranteed that this language was not Hebrew since that language had become a dead/Holy language, much like present day Coptic, or Slavonic for the Russian Orthodox. A language spoken only in temple/synagogue, and not one that your average common person in the market place would be fluent in.).

Other Patristic quotes

Irenaeus, Adv. Haer. 3.1.1"Matthew also issued a written Gospel among the Hebrews n their own dialect while Peter and Paul were preaching at Rome and laying the foundations of the church."

Origen (Eusebius, H.E. 6.25.4)"As having learnt by tradition concerning the four Gospels, which alone are unquestionable in the Church of God under heaven, that first was written according to Matthew, who was once a tax collector but afterwards an apostle of Jesus Christ, who published it for those who from Judaism came to believe, composed as it was in the Hebrew language."

Eusebius, H.E. 3.24.6"Matthew had first preached to Hebrews, and when he was on the point of going to others he transmitted in writing in his native language the Gospel according to himself, and thus supplied by writing the lack of his own presence to those from whom he was sent."

Epiphanius (ca. 315-403), bishop of Salamis, refers to a gospel used by the Ebionites (Panarion 30. 13.1-30.22.4). He says it is Matthew, called "According to the Hebrews" by them, but says it is corrupt and mutilated. He says Matthew issued his Gospel in Hebrew letters. He quotes from this Ebionite Gospel seven times. These quotations appear to come not from Matthew but from some harmonized account of the canonical Gospels.

Jerome also asserts that Matthew wrote in the Hebrew language (Epist. 20.5), and he refers to a Hebrew Matthew and a Gospel of the Hebrews-unclear if they are the same. He also quotes from the Gospel used by the Nazoreans and the Ebionites, which he says he has recently translated from Hebrew to Greek (in Matth. 12.13).

2006-04-12T07:05:00.000-07:00

More than a Narrative (The Gospel According to Matthew).

I thought the first aspect of commentary I would do would be concerning the significance of the Books title, "According to Matthew", or "The Gospel According to Matthew" in the original Greek/Aramaic.

I wanted to say that I think this is much more than "A narrative". And here is the wiki link to that literary concept if you want to brush up on what I'm getting at here.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narrative

I'm mentioning it here because I think some people, namely fans of Biblical Higher Criticism, and most notably today postmodern / emerging evangelical Christians, have really trivialized certain aspects of the Bible. So for instance, "telling stories" as a way of doing sermons, teaching is all the rage now; because that is a way that gets around some of the problems that they see with modernity (reductionism, scholasticism and the alike). They also note that Jesus told stories as a way of showing spiritual truth and so on.

I don't have a problem with that. But many times the term "telling stories" is done in a way that lowers the bar. Not all stories are equal, some stories are greater, more authoritative, have more testimony around them, and make much greater claims then others. So what bugs me is many times the gospel "narratives" are talked about in the same exact vein as a person "spinning a yarn" to make a point, or some other literary work like something from Homer. Shakespeare and so on.

The Gospels are in a whole different category. Obviously first of all because of the message. I'm sure I'm probably preaching to the choir and you all understand the significance of that. But moreover, especially do to the nature of those "stories" themselves. While the Gospels are "stories", it would be more much accuracte to call them "testimonies", as in the notion of a "sworn testimony" in the legal sense. Because the Gosples themselves were eye witness accounts of people that had seen and heard first hand the most incredible message and events that had ever taken place in the World. The Gospel writers like Matthew were giving their emphatic testimony to that affect. They were literally staking their reputation, and the future of their life and limb on the truth of those "stories". And holding up the veracity of that "narrative" against repreated scourgings, imprisonments, and finally execution itself. The character of the evangelists, and the nature of their suffering for that message was considered "evidence" concerning the Truth of that message (Because people will not give themselves over to such things if they believe a message is a lie. And the Sannhedrin were not only spinning the the story that disciplies had lied concerning the Resurrection, and were doing everything they could to undermine and extinguish their testimony). So clearly both the content of the Gospel and the great sacrifice and belief of the Evangelists themselves sets this apart from all other "narratives".

2006-04-09T16:50:00.000-07:00

Coming soon..... an indepth study of the book of Matthew.

And when I mean "indepth' it will probably be my typical obsessive compulsive disorder degree of coverage. I am planning on covering the book from such angles as: Greek/Coptic, Syriac/Aramaic, as well as contemporary thought from the Eastern Orthodox, Roman Catholics and Judaism. And probably will even work in some compare and contrast between my viewpoints and lets say more recent works like "The Secret Message of Jesus" by Brian Mclaren, and the recent flap over the "Gospel of Judas" (and some of the other bits of late breaking Christian news) just for kicks.

Anyway it should be pretty good! Will most likely start posting on it monday evening or Tuesday morning depending on Holy Chocolate schedules.

2006-04-08T08:48:00.000-07:00

Jolly Blogger

By the way, I've found out over the last two weeks, I really like "Jolly Blogger". He's a Reformed Church guy, who talks about a lot of what going on in the American evangelical church world, emergent included. He seems pretty well read, circumspective and thoughtful, (he conservative and traditional without making a rush to judgement on a lot of issues including Emergent, but on the other hand he sticks to his guns more then some)

http://jollyblogger.typepad.com/jollyblogger/

Anyway Jolly in his last post, covers Emergent evangelism, and he echoes some of my concerns (that some pomo/emergents are soft shoeing the exclusivity of the Christian gospel).

And on some of these issues I've been doing lots and lots of thinking, and praying and been thinking about doing some writing on such topics as Orthodox evangelism, and discussing some troubling trends that I think are going on in American Christianity .

[edit - add on. Some more quotes and web sites]

this blog/post is also worth noting too

"I guess I just wonder if the emerging leaders are coming close to throwing the baby out with the bathwater. "

www.emergingevangelism.com

"The Truth:The Emergent, syncretized, neo-pagan gospel soup is best described by the late Dr.
Francis Schaeffer:

"While I was in Finland some years ago, A Bible-believing university professor there used the following illustration. A new liberal, he says, is like a shopkeeper who keeps many things under the counter. When the old-fashioned liberal comes in and asks for old-fashioned liberalism, the new liberal reaches under the counter and says, 'That is just what we have here.' When the Bible-beliving Christian comes in, the new liberal reaches under the counter and says, 'That is just what we have here.' The new theology is able to do this because of its both-and mentality. Opposites can still be mutually true." (The Church Before the Watching World, p. 125)

http://herescope.blogspot.com/2005/11/emergent-post-colonial.html

2006-04-06T19:14:00.000-07:00

Essen Sie koptisches?

( lol that translation coutesy of babel fish)

I've been wanting to do something foody lately. And was going to do something creative with Lenten cuisine. My actual

intention was going to take some dishes from my father's native Slovakia and Coptify them for Lent. But that didn't work out so good, because Czechs and Slovaks apparently like putting animal products into just about everything... even "vegetable soup". (Although you can sort of do a Lenten Strogannoff by using hummus or tahini in place of sour creme), but that project right now est kaput!

So I'm doing the easy thing showing a little Egyptian lenten food, food that maybe a little different than Antiochian and EO fare. Like this dish, above

http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/koshary.htm

and let say probably a few other dishes that we eat that are unique, or probably wouldn't fit EO rules. Falafel is big since we don't have a rule against using oil during fasts. I have to admit falafel is one of those really good fasting foods, when you consider how boring and mediocre your average hamburger or meat sandwhich can be...

and then you got "Fuul". This recipe looks better than some I've seen online, except for the fact the lady has eggs in it, which is a "no, no".

http://egyptmonth.com/mag03012001/mag5.htm

And then you got baked goods. Actually the Egyptians do pretty good here, because I think they naturally make a fair amount of baked goodies without any animal products, not sure why this is exactly. But I it could possibly due to some of the Muslim food customs (Which are very similar to kosher), and they pick up some of the recipes that come out of that culture.

They got these cookies at church that one of the old ladies sells as a church fundraiser,that are really good, they are a kind of cresent shaped farina dough thing, stuffed with a date filling. I don't know the name of those yet, but I tend to buy them whenever I get the chance.

And then you got "Kanafa", which is described by one web site "Kanafa is a dish of batter "strings" fried on a hot grill and stuffed with nuts, meats, or sweets." (It looks to me like some kind of baklava coconut dish).

2006-04-04T15:32:00.000-07:00

Deconstructionism and the hermeneutics of suspicion

I found this article on the web today, and thought I would plug it since its very useful in understanding the basic mentality going around not only in academia, but also in the American Christianity.

Try as I might just can't get off the anti-postmodernist train... Maybe this is one of those "working through kind of things".

"...The real purpose of the deconstructionist power brokers is to separate as many Americans as possible from their families and from their literature and traditions."

2006-04-04T13:02:00.000-07:00

Monty Python Mclaren

Ok from henceforth I will be taking this blog in a much, much, more enlightened direction away from "foolish controversies" and towards the radiant light of Alexandrian Spirituality!

But... uh... I sort of found this cartoon and had to get one last dig in. I do however promise to move towards a more kinder, gentler approach that Jesus, Gina and Abouna will approve of....

Of course If I find more cartoons I most likely will suffer a relapse and post them as well. :)

2006-04-02T23:31:00.000-07:00

An Illustration of Emergent "Being so open minded that your brain has fallen out."

Back before I was with the Coptic Church, I was formerly with another Church that had its apostolic lines from the Assyrian Church of the East (considered Nestorian by Oriental and Eastern Orthodox). In practice however it was more sacramental Protestant in how it did things. And my own personal theology (being a bit of a unofficial resident theologian) was more Orthodox in nature. It was only a few months after posting this that I actually left this church and joined the Oriental Church when I realized I actually fit the Oriental church much more than the Assyrian one. Anyway this is a bit of a "blast from the past", where you get to see the old pre Coptic Addai. It's basically a small chat thread excerpt where two of names have been withheld for the sake of the privacy of those I'm quoting.

M asks "The Virgin Birth?"
I have a question, more for pastors than anyone else? If there are different theological differences in your congregation regarding say, those who believe the virgin birth is very important and those who see it as a myth, how do you keep them from splitting the congregation?Obviously other topics could do the same, like the resurrection as metaphor or actual resuscitation of a dead body. Or are these things just not talked about?

Addai "RE: The Virgin Birth?"

The Virgin Birth is very important theologically. If you believe that Christs's suffering and death was necessary to redeem mankind, then the virgin birth is a necesaary part of that. Christ is suppose to be the last and ultimate sacrifice. To be that he is suppose to be without sin and iniquity. If he was not born this way how could we be sure of this? In fact, how could we be sure that the right man died period? These are actually very fundamental aspects of Chrisitan Orthodoxy! To not beleive them is simply to try to view and understand the faith through the eyes of Humanism and other philosophies rather than how it has been understood since its inception.

M's reply
Obviously, many do not believe that Christ's suffering and death was necessary to redeem mankind. The 'rescue' idea is traditional but not universally held. Some think that, since most of the heroes of the age were reputed to be born of virgins and resurrected, these are mytns attached in the stories of Christ after his death. So, as a pastor, if you are a pastor, could your congregation accommodate people with such views? Would they be asked to leave? Would they be asked to keep quiet?

Addai's reply
This sort of thing is pretty much the lowest common denominator beliefs of the faith. Without it.. well Jesus becomes just a wise teacher, not much better than any other wise teacher. The first several centuries of Chrisitanity, was struggle over heresies, about the personhood of Christ.. Also what some people consider "myth" I see actually a great revolutionary force, one that is able to overcome death and the sword. Do people really lay down their life for something they think is just a good story or parable, but has no historic or actual truth? What your speaking of my friend seems to repeateing the modernist "Biblical Higher Criticism" of some of the liberal modernist Protestant denominations. I come from a much older Church line, that never bought into any of this thinking (From the Aramaic and Syriac church, which was started from the very first apostles). It's one thing to have a suspicion about the ancient past because you have no conection to it. If you are linked in a continuos succession with history however, your perspective changes. You would not doubt it anymore than you would your mother telling you a story about your great grandfather/mother who you never met, or showing you some letters or other documents belonging to him or her, or even some photos about him/her.I don't think there would be much point in a person not beleiving in the full diviinity etc. of Christ in our services. Still if a person lets say has an open mind on the issue, and their thoughts on this issue is more an expression of doubt, but not out and ideological stance.. I would feel more accomodating. For we all have doubts in our life over many things. But if they feel strongely on the issue, I think I would have to recommend they seek out someone whos views match much closer to their own.

M's reply
Guilty as charged. Post-modern all the way.But I am not sure that my liberal/traditional denomination is doomed just because we allow for a wide range of thought in our members and in our ministers. We could also be called schismatic/prophetic. But we are determined to deal with our diversity, perhaps a little clumsily right now but we will get better at it. I only asked the question because we are willing to profit from the experiences of others.

Pomo Pastor finally comes on and replies (intereting tid bits high lighted).
In our fellowship we have agreed to allow relationships to be the primary bind. If someone asks us what does your church believe we have to answer "I don't know...you will have to ask them".

The challenge has been our leadership. We have developed an open leadership community - any one desiring to lead - CAN - provided they agree to participate as a community (our understanding is this means we agree to permanent relationship). This means we can't leverage our disagreements by threat of leaving.This is somewhat problematic - but we are fighting the culture of the consumer church and the commodification of Christ - so we have agreed to live this way. The virgin birth issue came up in our leadership community as we were forming a statement about what we mean when we say we are "followers of Christ". I suggested that we adopt the apostles creed - but some rejected this because of the statement "born of the virgin Mary". Upon discussion some felt that the story of the virgin birth was a story of "holy rape and incest" God the Father forcing himself upon Mary (feminist theology) some did not believe becasue of scientific reasons - no evidence (empricist), others did not belive because of the parralells in mythology. Our dillema came as others in the leadership community were challenged to make relationship our bind - not belief - we are a "Christian Community" but it does not mean we all believe the same. We have many many diverse beliefs that exist simultaneously (our congregation has even been the subject in one book as "postmodernism gone wrong"). I contend all the time that - all congregations have diverse belief systems in spite of the churches attempt to form doctrinal statements. I ask pastors all the time "when you say this is what your church belives - who is it excatly that believes this - all the people who attend?, all the members?, all the elders? all the staff?, - who exactly is the belivers in this community?M, I think the challenge will be in leadership how will you structure the "ability to lead" the community. Sometimes leaders arise without any of the established positions - they lead simply by virtue of their "compelling relationship" My suggestion to organize not around belief - but organize around permanent realtionships that allow for diversity.

2006-03-30T13:53:00.000-08:00

Is there any decent Orthodox alternative to theooz.com and all this emergent/pomo this and that has been proclaimed as Gospel the past few years? (I'm almost thinkin we should all band together and make one).

I figured I would ask that question... Also it provides me a good opportunity to post these Mclaren satire pics since I decided that a full blown criticism series might be too negative.. or a bit of an over kill (I'll leave that too the conservative Calvinists).Still it's good to have a laugh once in a while hence the pics...

(edit add on)

The Unbearable Agony of Being Brian McLaren

http://thinklings.org/?p=2889

Ok one Protestant guy, has done something I've been doing recently, basically showing there is a traditional, conservative (Orthodox) Christian middle ground around some of these issues that Brian Mclaren tends to respond to with spinelessness and/or heterodox sounding answers. I really believe more of us, should be doing this (Showing that this is not a "false dichotomy", either/or situation, on many of these issues that Emergents have been "So open minded that their brains have fallen out").

2006-03-26T13:23:00.000-08:00

A story of Constructive Ecumenicism from today's Synaxarium

The Martyrdom of St. Sedhom Bishay in Domiat.
On this day also the church commemorates the martyrdom of Sedhom Bishay in Domiat on the 17th. of Baramhat year 1565 A.D. (March 25th., 1844 A.D.). He endured the torture for the Name of the Lord Christ and his martyrdom made the rising of the Cross during the Christian funeral processions openly, for it was forbidden before.

This martyr was a clerical employee in the government of the port of Domiat during the days of Mohammed Ali Basha the Governor of Egypt. A revolt of mobs in the port arose, they seized Sidhom Bishay and accused him falsely that he cursed Islam and witnessed against him before the religious judge a low uncivilized person and a donkey driver. The judge decided either he would forsake his faith or be killed, he whipped him and then sent him to the Governor of the city. After the Governor had examined his case he issued the same judgement against him as the judge did. Sidhom was steadfast in his Christian faith, not caring to be killed. They whipped, dragged him on his face down the stairs in the Governor palace, then they put him on a buffalo facing the tail and went around with him in the streets of the city insulting and degrading him. The Christians in the city became afraid and locked themselves in their houses.

The mob continued to insult him and tortured him in different ways until he was about to deliver his soul; so they brought him to the door of his house and left him there. His family went out and brought him inside and five days later he departed to heaven.

His departure was a great martyrdom, and the Christians counted him among the holy martyrs. They gathered regardless of their denomination and joined in his funeral in a celebration that there was nothing like it before. The Christians carried their arms and the priest put on their vestments headed by the Archpriest Yousef Michael who was the head of the Coptic congregation in Domiat and accompanied by the priests of the other denominations. They marched in his funeral in the streets of the city and in front of him the deacons carrying the banners of the Cross, and they arrived to the church where they prayed the funeral rites. The people went on objecting this reprehensible and painful incident and talking about the patience and endurance of the different kinds of torture in silence and the steadfastness of Sidhom the martyr.

The prominent people of the Christian community in Domiat deliberated as how to avoid these incidents in the future. They decided to ask the consuls of the foreign countries to mediate with the ruler of the country and the Pope the Patriarch of the Copts and sent to them detailed reports. Mr Michail Sorour the official representative of seven countries in Domiat was in charge of this mediation.

The ruler of Egypt was concerned about this incident and sent two official representatives to examine the case. So they reopened the inquiry and they realized the injustice and the ill-treatment that befell the great martyr and convicted the judge and the governor for their wrong doing, stripped them from their honor then exiled them. They asked, as a good will and to comfort the people, to allow the raising of the Cross publicly before the Christian funerals, and the ruler allowed that in Domiat. This was allowed later on all over the country during the Papacy of Pope Kyrellos IV.

2006-03-25T17:56:00.000-08:00

Early Attestation to the Afterlife

(addai - found this today so might as well add it to what I posted yesterday from communityfirst.cc/chris/documents/docs/universalism.htm sorry, couldnt give link without it messin up my format.)

At this point, we have seen that the major texts uses for proof of universalism in the Bible seem to crumble in their context. The next problem we shall deal with is the afterlife, specifically the belief in a torturous hell. There are several early Jewish and Christian witnesses to the afterlife. We shall briefly look at a few of these texts, but I must concur with Alfred Edersheim here that the Jewish writings are not authoritative but give much insight into the Judaism from which Christianity arose. First of all, we have “Against Plato, On the Cause of the Universe” by Hippolytus. This work is also known as Josephus' “Discourse to the Greeks Concerning Hades". However, current scholarship attributes this work to Hippolytus, a disciple of Irenaeus, who lived from about 170 until 236. To Hippolytus, as well as Jesus in his story of the rich man and Lazarus, hades is the abode of the just and the unjust until the final judgment. In this first section of his work, Hippolytus speaks of “a certain place set apart, as a lake of unquenchable fire, whereinto we suppose no one hath hitherto been cast; but it is prepared for a day afore-determined by God, in which one righteous sentence shall deservedly be passed upon all men.” This is the place described further below:

“But as to the unjust, they are dragged by force to the left hand by the angels allotted for punishment, no longer going with a good-will, but as prisoners driven by violence; to whom are sent the angels appointed over them to reproach them and threaten them with their terrible looks, and to thrust them still downwards. Now those angels that are set over these souls drag them into the neighborhood of hell itself; who, when they are hard by it, continually hear the noise of it, and do not stand clear of the hot vapor itself; but when they have a near view of this spectacle, as of a terrible and exceeding great prospect of fire, they are struck with a fearful expectation of a future judgment, and in effect punished thereby: and not only so, but where they see the place [or choir] of the fathers and of the just, even hereby are they punished; for a chaos deep and large is fixed between them; insomuch that a just man that hath compassion upon them cannot be admitted, nor can one that is unjust, if he were bold enough to attempt it, pass over it.”

Note that this is still speaking of the time before the final judgment. The early Jewish take on the final judgment is seen in section six:

“To these belong the unquenchable fire, and that without end, and a certain fiery worm, never dying, and not destroying the body, but continuing its eruption out of the body with never-ceasing grief: neither will sleep give ease to these men, nor will the night afford them comfort; death will not free them from their punishment, nor will the interceding prayers of their kindred profit them; for the just are no longer seen by them, nor are they thought worthy of remembrance.”

At the very least, within 200 years of Christ's death, we see in a fairly detailed account of an eternal punishment in an unquenchable fire of the “unjust” men. Josephus, the 1st-Century Jewish historian, will now be consulted for 1st-Century Jewish beliefs. In his Second Book of the Jewish War, chapter 8, section 14, Josephus speaks of the Pharisees. He states that “They say that all souls are incorruptible, but that the souls of good men only are removed into other bodies, - but that the souls of bad men are subject to eternal punishment.” In that same section, we read that the Sadducees do not believe in an afterlife for the soul. In section 11 of the same chapter, we read of the Essenes “the vehement inclinations of bad men to vice are restrained, by the fear and expectation they are in, that although they should lie concealed in this life, they should suffer immortal punishment after their death.” These are the beliefs of the three main Jewish sects at the time the New Testament was written. The sects who believe in an afterlife reflect the Jewish belief that there is “eternal punishment” for men in that afterlife.

2006-03-24T14:35:00.000-08:00

An End To The Universalism topic.

I've decided to wrap up this topic to make way for an even bigger one Mclarenism.

My way of wrapping it up is also pretty darn simple, assuming your Orthodox that is. You can reject the extreme end of Universalism, by just following the history of the Church's teaching on this subject. While I have heard the (false) claim that this teaching did not originate until the mid 500 (whenever the Eastern Orthodox had that big counsel that dealt with Origenism), in my studies I have found all kinds of various prior precedents that suggest that this has been the teaching of the Church.

Like the Athanasian Creed for instance which says
"And they that have done good shall go into life everlasting and they that have done evil into everlasting fire.
This is the catholic faith, which except a man believe faithfully he cannot be saved."
Retrieved from "http://www.orthodoxwiki.org/Athanasian_Creed"

According to Tradition, Athenasius had a hand in formulating this creed. Besides this there are other precendents like Statements made by Ignatius of Antioch

"CHAPTER XVI.--THE FATE OF FALSE TEACHERS.
Do not err, my brethren. Those that corrupt families shall not inherit the kingdom of God. If, then, those who do this as respects the flesh have suffered death, how much more shall this be the case with any one who corrupts by wicked doctrine the faith of God, for which Jesus Christ was crucified! Such an one becoming defiled [in this way], shall go away into everlasting fire, and so shall every one that hearkens unto him"

Besides this statement there is another statement of his that I lost track of, I read it once but can't for the life of me find it again. But I will try to paraphrase it. It basically described the notion of hell that Bishop Kallistos Ware described. It spoke that God is like a "great furnance" used for firing clay pots. And those that die unprepared are like the clay pots that burst in the fire (due to the bubbles, and imperfections). Anyway the quote both described a classical Orthodox notion of both Hell as well as the process of theosis in this life.

Which is significant in light of my earlier comments as in "But if there be any (heresies) which are bold enough to plant themselves in the midst of the apostolic age, that they may thereby seem to have been handed down by the apostles, because they existed in the time of the apostles, we can say: Let them produce the original records of their churches..." This is the testimony of an Early Bishop whose authority is recognized.

Besides this there are other ones: As I mentioned before barring of the Origen from the priesthood is another one (It's a repudiation on all the teachings that he taught that were contrary to Orthodoxy. The pre-existence of souls especially, but this one also to a lesser degree).

The fore mentioned Athenasian Creed is probably the best one. While this creed with modern scholarship has come under dispute in much the same way that modernists debate any dogmatic teaching, it is more credible if you take it in its context. Specifically speaking it is now often labeled as a "Latin Creed", because it most often used by the Roman Catholic Church. Which uses it in worship, dogma etc. From a Literary Critism stand point, I also know it is supposed to have some Latin nuances (suggesting it is Latin origen, and critics don't date this until the 500s). But what is impressive is the Coptic and Eastern Orthodox testimony. The Coptic testimony regarding the creed is impressive because Coptic Church testifies to the Creed even though it supposedly came out a good 100+ years after the Schism with the Coptic Church and the Church of Rome. And anyone knowing about the fallout of the Counsel of Chalcedon knows that we stopped associating and adopting anything that was Latin after that time. And of course the Eastern Orthodox use of the creed is extra gravey that shows this to be a truely Catholic expression of Faith (as in the St. Vincent Lerins expression of "what is held by all Christians at all times").

And finally for those that don't understand how the Early Church and contemporary Orthodox church works (in contrast to Protestantism), I would recomend this story.

The Orthodox Church and the Lutherans -An ecumenical correspondence from 1573 to 1581.

http://home1.inet.tele.dk/moebjerg/en-orthodox.htm

And I would focus on one of the last comments made regarding the dogmatic nature of the statements made by Patriarch Jeremiah II

"It became a voluminous work, when the total correspondence in 1584 was published in Wittenberg - nearly 300 pages. The Lutherans have not since picked up the thread, but in the Orthodox world the correspondence has got authoritative character, as the answers of the patriarch are looked at as one of the "confessions" of the Orthodox Church - with with reference to the Lutheran heresy. Still the 161 pages long letters of the patriarch form part of the symbolic books of the Orthodox Church, and Orthodox theological students have to go through this more than 400 years old dialogue between the Orthodox and the Lutherans."

I would suggest this true for all statements and decisions regarding this Issue. From St. Ignatius, to the dealing with Origen by his contemporary Church authorities, to even the Byzantine Church's dealings with the heresy of Origenism in its own jurisdiction which are referenced on the Coptic site (As reflecting out opinion as well, these show the great heretical legacy of Origen and from the basis of his thought).

http://www.copticchurch.net/topics/patrology/schoolofalex2

"THE ANATHEMAS AGAINST ORIGEN"

1. If anyone asserts the fabulous pre-existence of souls, and shall assert the monstrous restoration which follows from it: let him be anathema.

11. If anyone shall say that the future judgment signifies the destruction of the body and that the end of the story will be an immaterial , and that thereafter there will no longer be any matter, but only spirit (nous): let him be anathema.

12. If anyone shall say that the heavenly Powers and all men and the Devil and evil spirits are united with the Word of God in all respects, as the (Nous) which is by them called Christ and which is in the form of God, and which humbled itself as they say; and [if anyone shall say] that the Kingdom of Christ shall have an end: let him be anathema.

14. If anyone shall say that all reasonable beings will one day be united in one, when the hypostases as well as the numbers and the bodies shall have disappeared, and that the knowledge of the world to come will carry with it the ruin of the worlds, and the rejection of bodies as also the abolition of [all] names, and that there shall be finally an identity of the (gnosis) and of the hypostasis; moreover, that in this pretended apocatastasis, spirits only will continue to exist, as it was in the feigned pre-existence: let him be anathema.

15. If anyone shall say that the life of the spirits (noon) shall be like to the life which was in the beginning while as yet the spirits had not come down or fallen, so that the end and the beginning shall be alike, and that the end shall be the true measure of the beginning: let him be anathema.

The later is a theological opinion and verdict which while it does not have direct authority over us (The Coptic Church), is nevertheless always noted and cited by us, concerning this issue (In the same way that courts of other nations and states usually hold up the decisions of ones that our outside their jurisdiction, and do so consistently unless it can be clearly demonstrated that such rulings are "not made in good faith", or otherwise faulty or flawed). Considering the fact that Roman Catholic, Coptic Orthodox, and Eastern Orthodox opinion are unanimous on this topic. And given it early official paper trail, this dogma fits the St. Vincent Canon as well or better then many others we accept as "Holy Tradition".

2006-03-21T17:59:00.000-08:00

The Compossibility of a Loving God & the Eternal Destruction of Sinners

It's a discussion thread started by a Coptic (cradle) poster who I have a lot of respect for. He actually started a debate that somewhat hijacked a thread, until he started this thread on Universalism. (The Greek Orthodox christian supports it, he also has been "out there" on other issues, of late calling Orthodox of an Antiochian theological persuasion "Judaisers"). Anyway this has been a "happy coincidence", as far as my blogging is concerned.

2006-03-18T17:42:00.000-08:00

"But Hell exists as well as Heaven. In recent years many Christians — not only in the west, but at times also in the Orthodox Church — have come to feel that the idea of Hell is inconsistent with belief in a loving God. But to argue thus is to display a sad and perilous confusion of thought. While it is true that God loves us with an infinite love, it is also true that He has given us free will; and since we have free will, it is possible for us to reject God. Since free will exists, Hell exists; for Hell is nothing else than the rejection of God. If we deny Hell, we deny free will. ‘No one is so good and full of pity as God,’ wrote Mark the Monk or Hermit (early fifth century); ‘but even He does not forgive those who do not repent’ (On those who think to be justified from works, 71 (P.G. 65, 940D). God will not force us to love Him, for love is no longer love if it is not free; how then can God reconcile to Himself those who refuse all reconciliation?

The Orthodox attitude towards the Last Judgment and Hell is clearly expressed in the choice of Gospel readings at the Liturgy on three successive Sundays shortly before Lent. On the first Sunday is read the parable of the Publican and Pharisee, on the second the parable of the Prodigal Son, stories which illustrate the immense forgiveness and mercy of God towards all sinners who repent. But in the Gospel for the third Sunday — the parable of the Sheep and the Goats — we are reminded of the other truth: that it is possible to reject God and to turn away from Him to Hell. "Then shall He say to those on the left hand, The curse of God is upon you, go from my sight into everlasting fire" (Matt. 25:41).

There is no terrorism in the Orthodox doctrine of God. Orthodox Christians do not cringe before Him in abject fear, but think of Him as philanthropos, the ‘lover of men.’ Yet they keep in mind that Christ at His Second Coming will come as judge.

Hell is not so much a place where God imprisons man, as a place where man, by misusing his free will, chooses to imprison himself. And even in Hell the wicked are not deprived of the love of God, but by their own choice they experience as suffering what the saints experience as joy. ‘The love of God will be an intolerable torment for those who have not acquired it within themselves’ (V. Lossky, The Mystical Theology of the Eastern Church, p. 234).

Hell exists as a final possibility, but several of the Fathers have none the less believed that in the end all will be reconciled to God. It is heretical to say that all must be saved, for this is to deny free will; but it is legitimate to hope that all may be saved. Until the Last Day comes, we must not despair of anyone’s salvation, but must long and pray for the reconciliation of all without exception. No one must be excluded from our loving intercession. ‘What is a merciful heart?’ asked Isaac the Syrian. ‘It is a heart that burns with love for the whole of creation, for men, for the birds, for the beasts, for the demons, for all creatures’ (Mystic Treatises, edited by A. J. Wensinck, Amsterdam, 1923, p. 341). Gregory of Nyssa said that Christians may legitimately hope even for the redemption of the Devil.",

Bishop Kallistos Ware, "The Orthodox Church"

2006-03-18T12:42:00.000-08:00

The Dogma of Eternal Death

I wanted to restart or at least simplify my previous project on Universal reconciliation. Rather than make things really thorough and possibly boring (as well as laborious). Instead I'm going to make things really, really simple. If you are Orthodox (Eastern or Oriental) or Catholic the eternity of Hell is dogma. Basically an authoritative teaching, asserted without question, reservation, and so forth. It is a teaching like many other theological developments, i.e. the Trinity, Christologica statements, virgin birth and ever Virginity of Mary, etc. Something that comes by way of Tradition, seen in the scriptures and testified by the Fathers, but not necessarily something that would be seen in early Judaism. (Which should not be suprising since there are many words in hebrew with vague or indefite meanings, and there is a huge ammount of theological developement within Judaism from the time of Abraham to the incarnation of Jesus).

This dogma has been taught almost unanimously, except by 3 distinct groups

1) Gnostics (especially Valentians).

2) Some Church Fathers who were heavily involved in Neo Platonic thought. and

3) Contemporary Liberal Protestants.

Anyway in the coming days, I will go through and walk through the developement of this dogma, step by step.

2006-03-16T13:45:00.000-08:00

Status
I will be trying to get back to the Universal Reconcilliation series, but will probably loosen it up a bit, so it's a more fun and less laborious.
And on the ooze...
There has been a resurgance of interest in Orthodoxy that I find very encouraging. Gina and I are holding the fort, in the absence of deacon Raphael going AWOL for Lent.some recent threads of interest.

"Differences between Western & Eastern Thinking & Chrisitanity"
http://www.theooze.com/forums/discussions.cfm?forumid=10&topicid=270303

Mission in the EO church
http://www.theooze.com/forums/discussions.cfm?forumid=10&topicid=273190

The mystic way and the "Word" fully integrated
http://www.theooze.com/forums/discussions.cfm?forumid=10&topicid=265148

The Jesus Prayer, prayer ropes, beads, and/or rosaries
http://www.theooze.com/forums/discussions.cfm?forumid=43&topicid=270324

I am also rereading the book "The Orthodox Prayer Life", by Coptic monk writer "Matthew the Poor", for Lent. And will necro and contine this thread (transcribe chapter one of the book besides the intro). on this thread here
http://www.theooze.com/forums/discussions.cfm?forumid=10&topicid=180359&kw=Orthodox

2006-03-05T17:41:00.000-08:00

The proper way to write a letter (Courtesy of my young nephew)

Dear Tooth Fairy

My sister has lost a tooth! I need $10. I can not wait in time for February for Valentine Day. My sister is going with the Easter Bunny.
Please give me $10 ----you are one of my favorite persons. Please leave the money under my pillow.

Tomorrow I will try to write you a neater note, tomorrow.

Oh yah, I really need the $10. YOU are one of my favorite persons. My favorite person is Santa, YOU, and people who are like it.

I heard that you are small. Are you?

My name is Ray Mosko.

I hope you will come back some other day.

You may sign here_______________________!

Love: Ray Mosko

2006-02-27T16:11:00.000-08:00

"A Kinder Gentler Seraphim"

Ok now for something lighter. I decided to use my artistic vision to come up with an avatar for seraphim of the ooze, which is substantially less scarey and more realistic than the one he made, and.... Ta Da! Here is its.

This is in reference to the "Annimate Yourself" discussion thread on the ooze.

http://www.theooze.com/forums/discussions.cfm?forumid=16&topicid=261468&bookmark=41

The following portrait of course made with "Portrait Illustration Maker"

http://illustmaker.abi-station.com/index_en.shtml

2006-02-27T07:45:00.000-08:00

New Advent defintions of Church Fathers defintion (and my own explanation)

I've been a big fan of the Catholic web site New Advent.org and tend to use it for lots of different kinds of Church reasearch, because it has such an nice handy compilation of Church fathers writings and a great search engine full of articles on various church history and biblical topics.

http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/

In the area of the Church Fathers it is really important to define how we look at them. Because while some Church Fathers are considered great shining saints, others are considered more like king Solomon (very bright people, who made great contributions, but basically "back slid" later in life).

or as New Advent more precisely describes three requirements for "Church Fathers"

1) orthodox doctrine and learning;
2) holiness of life;
3) (at the present day) a certain antiquity.

But it has been recognized that there have been certain people that have made great great contributions to Christianity, and didn't exactly fit this strict criteria perfectly at least. So the Church has generally made a distinction between "saints". People who have fit the criteria. And others who have made contributions but basically left the faith, by joining a heretical sect, such as Montanism, Manicheanism, the Donatists. etc.

And when reading the Church Fathers it is really easy to tell which person is regaded as saintly figure, vs. those who are just regarded as being very learned, insightful, and so on.

Typically the saintly ones are given a title. i.e - St. Gregory the Illuminator, Clement of Alexandria, ...

While the ones that are just considered learned people who made a contribution to Church doctrine and so on are just called by their name with no title. i.e. - Origen, Irenaus, Tertullian, Tatian...

Ok we finally will talk about Clement of Alexandria he is one of these saints that is a "Category buster", we consider him a saintly father, but Catholics have removed him from that category (way back in the 900s I believe), and I don't know how he stands with the EO.

http://illustmaker.abi-station.com/index_en.shtml

2006-02-26T17:14:00.000-08:00

Reading the Church Father's "Alone"

“We must read the fathers in their context. And they must always be weighed against the Holy Scriptures. The Bible doesn't stand alone, but neither do the fathers either.”
Chuck, from the "Mycopticchurch.com", message board.

I like that quote of Chucks quite a bit. It came at a time when a person was beratting the Coptic stance on birth control. And basically accused us of being too liberal. That person I think was a former Catholic, turned Coptic, and really believes all birth control is a sin. While we believe that it acceptable for "Family planning", but couples shouldn't use it to dispense with having kids altogether. (during the early to mid 50s when the pill came out there was a meeting of the bishops to discuss how the Church should deal with it and that was the outcome, rather than the extreme stance that the Catholic Church took regarding this issue).

Anyway this critic posted a few dozen biting church fathers quotes and did everything but out and out accuse us of apostasy, for taking a more moderate stand on the issue. Which is where Chuck's comment came in, regarding not reading the Church Fathers "Alone", and he dealt with various issues going on regarding that issue.

Anyway on this issue andmany other ones it's very important to not read them "Alone". Besides the sciptures in their Judeo context, I would also other things like Holy Tradition and Canon Law that even the Fathers had to observe. Anyway now with that said, we probably will proceed to discussing Clement of Alexandria tomorrow or the day after.

2006-02-25T08:26:00.000-08:00

Origen and Origenism, Into

If you really want to trace where this doctrine first took root, you really have to go back to some our great seminal Alexandrian theologians.

Origen especially, but even his mentor (Who still is considered in good standing with the Church), Clement of Alexandria.

And of course I will be reading, quoting, and commenting on these official Coptic essays about Origen.

http://www.copticchurch.net/topics/patrology/schoolofalex/IV-StClement/index.html

http://www.copticchurch.net/topics/patrology/schoolofalex2/

Here is a list of points/assertions that will be made down the road.

1) The way the Church santioned the use of Platonism/ neo Platonism, and other Greek philosophy. My contention is that this heresy is basically a "platonic take on the Gospel", rather than using Platonism or other philosophy in the service of Chrisitanity (as is seen with doctrines like the Trinity, hypostatic union etc.).

2) There exists various rebuttals to Origen from Ecclesiastical authorities, some of which take place even during his own life. And these constitute a proof, that his assertions "do not represent Apostolic tradition".

3) Apopoatic Theology. lol this is a term I often mis-spell, but I'm refereing to the negatic theology. Defining God in negative terms (i.e. God is without sin), rather than positive terms (i.e. God is holy). As anyone studying Orthododxy will find out shortly enough the Faith is rich with kind of thinking. And as I've explained in other threads, etc. there are very good psychological reasons for this (The biggest is a notion that humans get that if they can clearly name of define something then they understand it. When applied to God this gets particularly bad. it basically changes God into more of a god).

Anyway as we will explore later on, many respectable saints do lean to a soft ammount of Universal Reconcilliation. I say soft, because they don't state if dogmatically as many true Universalists do. And I will submit that that is "ok" when we consider the Apophoatic framework. And will hopefully show how this is much different than what Universalists do and say.

4)Theological Developement. Will also be another thing to be explored. There are many attempts to justify Universalism that do not take this into account at all. Or they assume it on their end, but ignore the possibility on the end of Traditional dogma.

Anyway we got lots more to talk about!

http://illustmaker.abi-station.com/index_en.shtml

2006-02-22T21:59:00.000-08:00

The problem of the 1200 year gap

As we will see more and more, there are lots of problems with Universal Salvation. But one to talk about in passing, as we think about the previous posted material, (and I do my last bit of blogging before I turn in) is the problem of the 1200 year gap. That's not an exact figure, but a guesstimation.

Anyway here's the situation.

This dogma (outside of some vague mystical saying of Orthodox saints etc.) basically disappears off the face of the map for well over a millenia. And I am getting way ahead of myself since I haven't even talked about Origen and Origenism yet....

But Origenism seems to dieout sometime after 553 in the EO, and from what I can tell within the Coptic Church much sooner.

From a dogmatic standpoint this raises a problem with the teaching when we consider such things as apostolic succession, the nature of Paradosis (Holy Tradition), and the Catholicity of the Church (Which isn't just being everywhere but is the Church "At very time" not just every place) and even more importantly what we know about God and his faithfulness to perserve a "Chosen Remnant", "To keep his promises" and so on.

These notions and idea that Universal Salvation is somehow the "Truth of God" that disappeared from the Church goes against such verses as:

16:18
And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, F32 and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

1 Corinthians 3:11-15
11 For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, 13 each one's work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one's work, of what sort it is. 14 If anyone's work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward.

Isaiah 1:9
Unless the Lord of hosts Had left to us a very small remnant, We would have become like Sodom, We would have been made like Gomorrah

Ezekiel 6:8-10
8 "Yet I will leave a remnant, so that you may have some who escape the sword among the nations, when you are scattered through the countries. 9 Then those of you who escape will remember Me among the nations where they are carried captive, because I was crushed by their adulterous heart which has departed from Me, and by their eyes which play the harlot after their idols; they will loathe themselves for the evils which they committed in all their abominations. 10 And they shall know that I am the Lord; I have not said in vain that I would bring this calamity upon them."

1 Kings 19:

13 So it was, when Elijah heard it, that he wrapped his face in his mantle and went out and stood in the entrance of the cave. Suddenly a voice came to him, and said, "What are you doing here, Elijah?" 14 And he said, "I have been very zealous for the Lord God of hosts; because the children of Israel have forsaken Your covenant, torn down Your altars, and killed Your prophets with the sword. I alone am left; and they seek to take my life."

.....

"18 Yet I have reserved seven thousand in Israel, all whose knees have not bowed to Baal, and every mouth that has not kissed him."

http://illustmaker.abi-station.com/index_en.shtml

2006-02-21T19:18:00.000-08:00

An excerpt from "THE UNIVERSALIST CHURCH OF AMERICA" Robert Cummins

http://online.sksm.edu/univ/writings/cummins_uca.html

"We are not merely a company of men and women seeking to build another denomination. Most churches attempt to justify their separate existence by identifying their own organization or their particular faith with that of the "primitive church"- the church as it was during the early centuries of the Christian era; but such basis for separateness is scarcely tenable. The scholarly research of so eminent and unbiased a student as the late Canon B. H. Streeter 2 of Queens College, Oxford, proves beyond doubt that the early church possessed no single, distinct form, that its forms were many and varied, and that, while any one of today's churches might rightly claim to be patterned after one or another of the early churches (for there were several, not just one, so also might every other. In any event, what virtue would there be in such a claim, even were it true? Five of the seven schools extant in those early days were Universalist in their sympathies. Therefore, theologically, we may be said to have been in the majority and holding the "orthodox" viewpoint; but it would not occur to us to claim our right to separate existence today by reason of the situation which then prevailed."

Nor is it true that we are a people who merely "don't believe." The technique just referred to leads inevitably to the conclusion that there are some things we do not believe. Such matters as those over which, down across the years, the Christian Church has fought, bled, and all but died -belief in the Trinity, the Virgin Birth, the Immaculate Conception, miracle-working power of the Sacraments, literal interpretation of all portions of the Old and New Testaments-any and all of these, most Universalists do not accept; but we do not make the grave mistake of prescribing that our people shall not accept them. They may or they may not, as they choose; and, therefore (significantly), they do not. We hold a man's relationship with God is too sacred a thing to be tampered with from without. After all, who are we-who is anyone else-to dictate the terms of such relationship? As a matter of fact, such beliefs make no real difference anyway,-no difference, that is, morally and ethically. They are matters of opinion only and have nothing to do with richness of character, personal or social, which should constitute the primary concern of the church.

Universalism did begin as a protest, and properly so; but it was a moral protest, theological in form. There were in those early days a few souls who had the courage to rise up in protest against what they conceived to be a cruel, Moloch-worshiping Calvinism, and to call the Christian world back to Jesus' conception of God as Father of all His Creation. Universalists were the protestants of the Protestants, branded as heretics and rebels; but they proved to be in the vanguard of theological thought, pioneers in social reform, gadflies to themselves and others, one of the most humanitarian movements in the history of the Christian Church.3 Yet all this is only a lesser aspect of the thing we are banded together to do.

It is our judgment we are different; but we are not so simply because we wish to be. We are different because the very logic of the situation makes it inevitable. Universalism, by the very nature of the case, is an inclusive gospel. Universalist Fellowship is inclusive in character, that is, any exclusion is self-exclusion. We attempt to stand not only for a more liberal kind of religion, but for a point of view so radically at variance with most of the existing faiths as to make ours a different religion. The conception we have of the Church itself is fundamentally unlike that held by most of the established institutions of religion.

Orthodoxy (by this we mean that phase of religious life which includes both Catholic and Protestant friends) conceives of religion as constituting a body of truth to be believed. There may be differences of opinion as to what the truth is, and there may be an endless variety of interpretation of the same truth; but, beneath all opinions and interpretations, there is common agreement that religion is inevitably associated with a body of truth.

(I quoted the most objectionable from an Orthodox standpoint the writer goes on later to describe such things as disagreement with original sin, etc. that actually puts him closer to Orthodoxy concerning theosis, the nature of humans created in the Divine Image, etc.).

2006-02-21T18:52:00.000-08:00

What's the history of the this movement (Universalism).

Universalism is pretty much an American Protestant phenomenon. It however does an ancient church, precedent, being very much akin to "Origenism". While the Universalists are in most ways Sola Scripturists of a different kind, many of them have studied the early church, and found a kind of vindication for their beliefs there.

Wikipedia has some pretty good write ups describing the basic history of the movement.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universalism

Wiki defintition of Universalism

"In Christianity, Universalism, Universal reconciliation, or universal salvation, is the doctrine that all will be saved. Among theologians the doctrine is often referred to using the Greek word apocatastasis. The doctrine addresses the problem of Hell and notions of God's mercy and justice. Universalists contend that a loving God would not submit anyone, regardless of his or her sins or beliefs, to everlasting torment. Some also argue that eternal condemnation in Hell, an infinite punishment, is not proportionately just with any number of essentially finite sins. Scriptural support includes Biblical passages such as 1 Corinthians 15:22 and Revelation 5:13. Some universalists, sometimes called "strong universalists," hold that all creatures, including demons and even Satan himself, will eventually be saved. In North America, some adherents formed the Universalist Church, which in 1961 merged with the American Unitarian Association to form the Unitarian Universalist Association."

Highlights of Wiki history of this movement
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universalist_Church

"In America, Universalism developed from the influence of 4 sources of the Pietist movement in Europe: (1)the Protestant pietist movement --The Society of Friends, Moravians, Methodists, Lutherans, Schwenkfelders, Brethren, and others.
The earliest expressions of Universalism in America were clearly “Pietistic,” a term which simply refers to the religion of the heart. They were most often German. And they were more firmly rooted in the Mid-Atlantic states than New England, though Rhode Island had a goodly share of Pietists."

Universalism seems to have begun in this country in the 1750s. Wiki relates that "At it's peak in the 1830s, the Universalist Church was around the 9th largest denomination in the United States." While this church/creed has been on the decline, it seems to be gaining new life in a different form, the called Postmodern/ Emergent church movement, with some leaders embracing a new packaged version of it.

2006-02-21T14:21:00.000-08:00

Basic Starting Premise

"But if there be any (heresies) which are bold enough to plant themselves in the midst of the apostolic age, that they may thereby seem to have been handed down by the apostles, because they existed in the time of the apostles, we can say: Let them produce the original records of their churches; let them unfold the roll of their BISHOPs, running down in due succession from the beginning in such a manner that [that first BISHOP of theirs] BISHOP shall be able to show for his ordainer and predecessor some one of the apostles or of apostolic men, ùa man, moreover, who continued stedfast with the apostles. For this is the manner in which the apostolic churches transmit their registers: as the church of Smyrna, which records that Polycarp was placed therein by John; as also the church of Rome, which makes Clement to have been ordained in like manner by Peter. In exactly the same way the other churches likewise exhibit (their several worthies), whom, as having been appointed to their episcopal places by apostles, they regard as transmitters of the apostolic seed. Let the heretics contrive something of the same kind. For after their blasphemy, what is there that is unlawful for them (to attempt)? But should they even effect the contrivance, they will not advance a step. For their very doctrine, after comparison with that of the apostles, will declare, by its own diversity and contrariety, that it had for its author neither an apostle nor an apostolic man; because, as the apostles would never have taught things which were self-contradictory, so the apostolic men would not have inculcated teaching different from the apostles, unless they who received their instruction from the apostles went and preached in a contrary manner. To this test, therefore will they be submitted for proof by those churches, who, although they derive not their founder from apostles or apostolic men (as being of much later date, for they are in fact being founded daily), yet, since they agree in the same faith, they are accounted as not less apostolic because they are akin in doctrine. Then let all the heresies, when challenged to these two tests by our apostolic church, offer their proof of how they deem themselves to be apostolic. But in truth they neither are so, nor are they able to prove themselves to be what they are not. Nor are they admitted to peaceful relations and communion by such churches as are in any way connected with apostles, inasmuch as they are in no sense themselves apostolic because of their diversity as to the mysteries of the faith.

Tertullian, "On Prescription against the Heretics",32 (c.A.D. 200),in ANF,III:258

http://illustmaker.abi-station.com/index_en.shtml

2006-02-21T07:46:00.000-08:00

Just What Does Orthodoxy Have to say about "Universalism", aka "Universal Salvation", etc.

Introduction.

Well decided to get together a few basic points for an essay. And will try to develope them more in future posts. And from there I most likely will talk to some of the theologically inclined folks at Orthodoxychristianity.net (Some of which are Seminarians at Orthodox seminaries like St. Vlads etc.). This topic already has been covered directly or indirectly a good 14 times or so in my absence, but some of ideas, questions, and assertions haven't been brought up before. So I will probably start a whole new thread talking about if from another angle.

(I almost actually cancelled this project because of point 1) & 4) combined).

1) It's not our problem. It's basically a Protestant problem. And arises from Protestant ways of doing things, especially when it comes to willfully going against established Church Dogma.

2) It however is a confusing issue, depending on how you define it. So while there is an aspect that is heretical, certain people such as Kallistos Ware, many Church Fathers, the current Ecumenical Patriarch, and myself could be considered Universalists just because we have some vague hope that God might show some kind of mercy for those people who are outside the Church and Faith in the afterlife.

3) Universalists are right on much of their depiction of Church history. While I would love to make it black and white for the sake of simplicity, church history and theology is often gray and/or checkered.

4) Universalists however are extremely dismissive of the way the Church has handled dogmatic teaching. They use strawmen tactics, false analogies and other under handed means to support their personal dogma. As much as any Protetant who says, "The Church became pagan after Emperor Constantine came to power".

Universalists also use a reverse method to proove their point. Or more exactly, in areas of Epistemology, Law, and science, the burden of proof is always on the person making the claim. Universalists (like many Protestants and others) will attempt to shift the burden of proof over to the establishement. That it up to us to proove that their dogma is wrong and of course willfully dismissing all the things are infact brought up.

In this way, Strong Universalism (as opposed to a vague hope of it as shown by many Orthodox) personifies "heresy". Heresy as one Orthodox priest defined it, "Is not just believing a wrong doctrine" (anybody can do that), a heretic is a person who stubbornly clings and insists on a doctrine, even after being showm "time and time again that they are wrong". It stubbornness, literally "Choosing" in the greek. The word first came to be used for the forming of sects/ political parties in Judaism, and now it stands for those who choose to "Go there own way", as that old 70s band, "Fleetwood Mac" use to sing.

5) Many Universalists groups are heretical in other ways. They deny such things as the Inspiration of Scripture, The Trinity, the Divinity of Christ, the Virgin birth and many other dogmas held by not only Orthodox Christians, but even by many liberal Protestants. This last point to me really says it all. (I don't think I will talk about it seperately, but it will be discused in terms of point 4). ).

http://illustmaker.abi-station.com/index_en.shtml

2006-02-18T18:16:00.000-08:00

My first Apology!

(No Gina and I did not get into a fight. heh heh). I'm getting excited. I think I'm going to be writing my first out and (formal) Apology. Most likely called, something like

"The First Apology of Addai of Alexandria" to fit that old Apostolic naming convention.

The Topic it will be on is

"Universal Reconcilliation", based on the content of this web site

http://www.drewc.net/

Which was created, administered and promoted by an online acquitenance.

Some of my starting source material is from here

"Origen and Origenism"

(but most of it is in my nogin).

2006-02-17T11:19:00.000-08:00

(As posted on the ooze in answer to deacon Raphael)

Actually about to blog on this, but will answer it here instead. Comparative fasting between Copts and EO. Fasting is one of those interesting "little differences" that Vincent of Pulp Fiction talks about in the first scene of that movie (the interesting cultural differences that makes Europe feel different then the US).So yes we got Fish Fasts, Nativity, the Apostles and one other one in Summer, Assumption of Mary maybe. But our Fasting by and large is much more simple than yours.

We got "Major Fasts", wednesday and Friday, The Great Lent, and the "Fast of Jonah" that we just had. Those are vegan. While the other ones are the fish ones. And of course you fast 9 hours before Divine Liturgy (if taking Communion). But that includes time sleeping for Sunday Service or early morning weekly service. That is assuming you go to bed before midnight, otherwise you should knock of snacking around midnight or earlier if going to an extra early service.But we don't have all those crazy, "you can have wine this day, and olive oil this other day" stuff. And olive oil and wine are not regulated. So one Lenten option I am strongly considering is pesto sauce made without cheese. And other Italian sauces made with olive oil, like those ones made with sun dried tomato, capers etc.

One drawback of Coptic fasting. We do more fasting then any other Apostolic era Church, from what I hear. So while we fast on most of the same days you do. We got some bonus days thrown in, because the bishops have added some prepretory fast days for Lent and Advent (Actually we fast 3 days before the advent fast), we also celebrate a fast/feast or two extra that you don't. Like the Fast of Jonah/ Nineveh. That may be the only "Bonus" one we observe that you don't. Besides fasting to commemorate "The Moving of El Mokotam" before the advent fast beginsAnd well the El Mokotam thing is interestingfrom Wikipedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simon_the_Tanner

"The Caliph Al-Muizz used to invite different religious leaders to debate in his presence. In one of those meetings in which Pope Abraam and a Jew named Yaqub (Jacob) Ibn Yusuf Ibn Killis were present, the Pope got the upper hand in the debate. Plotting to take revenge, Ibn Killis quoted the verse where the Lord, Jesus Christ, said in Matthew 17:20: "If you have faith as small as a mustard seed, you can say to the mountain, Move from here to there, and it will move, nothing will be impossible for you" and demanded that the Pope proves that his religion is right by means of this.The Caliph saw in this a unique opportunity and asked Pope Abraam to move the Mokattam Mountain. If they proved unable to do so, it would be the proof that the religion of the Christians was wrong and the Caliph would be done away with them completely.And so, after three days of prayers and fasting by the Copts throughout Egypt, Pope Abraam was directed by the Holy Virgin Mary (in an apparition of her to him) to choose St. Simon to mediate for moving the Mokattam Mountain. On the set day, as the people, with St. Simon the Tanner among them, were saying Kyrie eleison (Lord have mercy), the mountain was thrusting up and down, and the sun could be seen from under it. After the miracle was performed in the presence of the Caliph, the Pope turned left and right looking for St. Simon the Tanner, but he had disappeared and no one could find him (a sign of the saint's great humility)."

2006-02-15T07:46:00.000-08:00

Have a Blessed Ginatines day! As well as a blessed "Feast of Christ Entering the temple"

Yesterday, the regularly scheduled Valentines day was pre-empted by the "Fast of Jonah" aka "The Fast of Nineveh" (celebrating the the three day shadow/type of Jonah's being in the whale's belly of Christ in the tomb. And if your our sister Church, the Syriac Orthodox Church of Antioch, or there eastern nestorian cousins, and I think even the Maronites. I believe it even would pin point the founding of the Apostolic see/s out in such eastern places in the Persian empire. One of which actually is Nineveh).

So instead of doing the regular Valentines day, we did the fast day with certain Valentines day flourishes, and the remaining portion of Valentine's day has been transfered over to today. Which I proclaim as Ginatines day, which also coincides with the liturgical holiday of Christ entering the temple (to be circumcised/ dedicated).

But all of this grandstanding aside. This is all a setup for those questions you keep hearing "We fast on this day do you Copts do that?" So I' hopefully tomorrow, which is the Feast of Nineveh (The Fast of Nineveh, which should be a full three day fast,is only two days this year. Basically got pre-empted by Christ arriving in the temple. Which had happened because by the way they reckon these things this is one of those special irregular, leap-year like years) will get around to doing a little compare and contrast between "The Coptic Way" and the way those other Orthodox guys do things.

2006-02-14T10:40:00.000-08:00

Have you heard of "Joomla"? To James Nee and other web heads out there I'm asking this question.

Before subjecting my best friend to Brian Mclaren, and the Purple People Eater blathering. He spoke to me about this site.

http://joomla.com/

As a way of beefing up my online Addai of Alexandria experience(He describes it as a "Content Manager" I think). Although technically I would be hosted from our SBC account (not blogger etc.).

Oh and he thought that the Purple guy's podcast in application "was very smart". I think that might be something inline with what he would consider doing.

2006-02-12T21:21:00.000-08:00

Is there ever any possibility of justifiable homicide during the liturgy?

I pondered this question during church today. Possibly one more sin, to pile on an ever growing list of ones for that much, much over due confession....

But the noise was particularly bad today. And you hear it especially when you sit in back. Which I was today.

It sounded kind of like this........

Fr. Salib: Make us all worthy, O our Master, to partake, of your holies unto za purification of our souls, our bodies and our spirits. That we may become one body and one spirit, and may have a share and an inheritance with all za saints who have pleased you since za beginning. Remember, O Lord, za peace of your one, only, holy, catholic and apostolic church.

(Stomp) (Stomp) (Stomp) (Thump!) (Bang!) (Stomp) (Stomp) (Stomp)

DEACON: Pray for the peace of the one holy catholic and apostolic Orthodox church of God.

(Stomp) (Stomp) (Stomp) (Stomp) (Stomp) (Stomp)

CONGREGATION: (Thump thump thump) Lord have mercy (Stomp) (Stomp) (Stomp)

Fr. Salib:: This which you have acquired unto yourself with the precious Blood of your Christ. Keep her in peace, with all za Orthodox bishops who are in her. Foremost, remember, O Lord, our blessed and honoured father, za archbishop our patriarch Abba......

(Stomp) (Stomp) (Stomp) (Stomp) (Stomp) (Stomp)

DEACON: Pray for our high priest Papa Abba..., pope, and patriarch and archbishop of the great city of Alexandria; and for our Orthodox bishops.

(Stomp) (thump) Stomp) (thump)

CONGREGATION:Lord have mercy. Kirie Eleyson.

(Stomp) (Stomp) (Stomp) (Stomp) (Stomp) (Stomp) (Stomp) (Stomp) (Stomp)

We've had different discussions on "The Arab Mind". Especially in reference to church. There was a great article written by a Southern (American) convert to the Antiochian church.

http://southern-orthodoxy.blogspot.com/2004/05/orthodoxy-in-dixie.html

And it even supplied some fodder for an ooze thread on culture (especially clashes) in church life.

Anyway it just seems to me that that arabs, can be way to loose on letting their kids run rampant in public. Some of this can't be helped; namely because we have no nursery. But I really think a lot of it can (my dad would have wrung my neck back in the day for stuff much less obnxious). And of course, this also caused us some problems with the neighbors as well...

But in church today, after some minutes of annoyance I realized it best to "make lemonade out of those sour lemons". And decided that attempting to recreate the experience in a blog post, might be fairly funny.

:)

2006-02-10T12:51:00.000-08:00

Orthodox Urban Legends

I was chucking over a discussion about an event that appears to be an urban legend. And a very colorful one at that. (A dismembered Arab sheikh raised from the dead after visiting an Orthodox convent - newspaper). I thought the story and discussion was just to good to not share with you guys. It's like an issue of"The Weekly World News" for Eastern Christians.

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php?topic=8141.0

2006-02-10T11:19:00.000-08:00

The Emergent Alan Alda

I decided to do some more reading up on some of the new crazes sweeping the Church world today. And of course reading Gina's blog got me interested in Brian Mclaren, and this huge Universal Salvation fad (heresy) that seems to be sweeping the Church world today.

As my best friend Stan loves to call it "Attack of the Unitarians", or "Revenge of the Unitarians" (that Unitarianism has basically co-opted the liberal evangelical movement).

Anyway in doing so, it reminded me of yet another gripe. Also something before discussed with the GF. Namely Getting a straight answer from this guy!

I mean sheesh I've never seen a person waffle on an issue, give "non-answers", or give huge answers filled with a host qualifiers so much that you almost forget the original question... than this guy does. It really reminds me of the Alan Alda, sensitive guy thing of the seventies. Which is another aspect of persona that he really seems to give off. I actually think that is one of the big reasons for the run around. Because of notions of 1970's compassion and sensitivity.

Of course being so on this extreme really means he cannot take any real side on an issue. Even if an issue is a trurely important one. Furthermore, some of his followers do the same mealy mouth crap. I recall a number of months ago. A young woman was seriously considering joining a "Christian Wiccan group" (A group that deliberately mixes Christianity with Celtic pagan practices).

As folks might guess that know me, being the fire breathing dragon of Orthodoxy, I was very much openly against it. And for many, detailed reasons given on that chat thread. There however was a minister who was a Brian fan who basically rebuked me for how close minded I was. I however unduanted turned the tables on him. And proceeded to question him. Because in rebuking me, he actually seemed to be giving a kind of passive support for such New Ageness. And I wanted to know for the record if that was true. Did he support or think was acceptable, or ok, to be mixing Christian services with occult rituals.

After being poked many times with sharp pointy head sticks. I finally got him to respond that "No I would not support such a thing. I would advise for people to stay away from the Occult"

But let me tell you it took a lot of prodding.

And that is the exact problem going on in Emergent Evangelism today. It's the old cliche of "being so open minded that your brains have fallen out". The only times these people really speak out is on politically safe, liberal subjects.

Anti-Bush, War in Iraq, the cost of medical care is to high.... That sort of thing. But if it comes to other things like the importance of the Virgin Birth in our understanding of Jesus as Messiah and God incarnate. Well on those issues they may have the same back bone of a Jelly Fish.

2006-02-07T10:04:00.000-08:00

Free Business Cards

Well I was inputing the last of the leads that we got at the trade show. And noticed the back of one of them (Since many cards now days have info on both front and back).

It said that this card was printed for free at http://www.freewebs.com/vistaprintings/

The card itself was distinctive (Although the lady had a weird formating in one section that I think was a big drawback). Anyway since I'm doing things "on the cheap" I decided to keep that lead and pass it on to any others, who need cards, but have trouble ponying up the dough.

Without going through the process. It looks like they give 250 cards, you pay for shipping, and most likely, since you got your first 250 with them. You will favorably inclined to keep buying from them in the future. (So basically the free cards is an alternate form of advertising, they are paying the cost of attracting new customers to you the consumer, rather than an add agency. Since it is often cheaper to do so. Plus word of mouth is the best advertising their is).

2006-02-07T08:10:00.000-08:00

Garden of Eden-like place found

Stan told me of this story which appeared on the drudge report

http://news.independent.co.uk/environment/article343740.ece

2006-02-04T09:19:00.000-08:00

Meet The Press

Some reporters we met along the way, at the Fancey Food Show.

Article about the show, (including 1 paragraph mention about us)
http://www.insidebayarea.com/food/ci_3464283

Faith Kramer
http://www.clickblogappetit.blogspot.com/

http://www.sugarsavvy.net/

"Beth"
http://www.thenibble.com/home/index.asp

Ada Chow
http://www.chowmag.com/

(Saveur reporter)
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00005N7SL/102-9366017-5302505?v=glance

as well as a few other magazines, local reporters, and free lancers.

2006-02-03T17:14:00.000-08:00

4 Things (under construction)

4 Jobs you have had in your life.

(Too many...), but most recently

1) Beta coordinator / Software tester
2) starving church planter/worker
3) Chocolateire, and other work in gourmet cocoa
4) providing living assistance for a developmental disabled and behavioral problematic young man.

4 Movies you can watch over and over

1) LOTR
2) Staw Wars universe flicks
3) Saving Private Ryan (as wellband of brothers movie and miniseries).
4) Monty Python films

4 Places I have lived (all in California)

1) Ridgecrest & China Lake Naval Weapons Center(mojave desert) , where most of our country's "smart weapons" were first invented

http://www.high-desert-memories.com/

http://www.nawcwpns.navy.mil/

2) Bakersfield (Agriculural city)

3) Santa Cruz (where Hawaiian royalty first introduced the mainlanders to surfing. Also place where organic & health food first went big)

http://www.305beachstreet.com/santacruz.html

4) "Silicon Valley" (west San Jose, and Campbell), Where microchips, personal computers etc. were first invented.

4 TV shows

1) Babylon 5 on DVD (Gina and are going through the first 4 seasons, but omitting season 5 due to weak acting and writing)
2) "The Prisoner" on DVD (Same story, but finished it)
3) "The Sopranoes" (same story, but finished it. Season 6 is being produced as we speak.. More of a guilty pleasure because some of the strong content of the show. But stories, acting etc, have always been excellent).
4) lots of ones could be a fourth one. I am considering some seasons of the X files and Millenium, for "TV with Gina time".

4 favorite foods (besides the usual western American fair that we all love, like pizza, burritos, etc.). I realize I miss a lot of Eastern/Central european food from my family background.

1) Svegedely Ghoulosh with egg noodles. and other Slovakian stews and noodle dishes, like Perkault, Poprickosh, Strogannoff etc. with Spaetzle, etc.

2) mom's Chicken Parmisian

3) King Ludwig's Torte

4) Hungarian Plum Dumplings

under construction more to follow

(will work on tagging blogs a little later, and will throw in some links to places I've lived, Tv shows and what not

2006-02-03T09:13:00.000-08:00

Trade Show Superstardom

I asked a friend (who worked in our trade show booth), Clark Guittard of a famous local chocolate company/family
http://www.guittard.com/

"What's it like being a Chocolateire Rock Star?"

Because every half an hour or so, he seemed to have some groupies. That wandered by and recognized him, and they came to the booth more to talk to him, then he even for our illustrous cocoa. He being the charming guy that he is, replied back.

"You should know... You're almost there yourself."

Well not quite Clark... But some positive affirmation does go along way. :)

Anyway I figured I would write more on the big Trade show, for Gina and any Food Channel fans. I'm in the process of finishing and polishing the data base with recent contacts, and will post links to some of the more colorful people we met on the way. As a way for Gina to have "the next best thing to being there", since I unfortately wasn't able to get an extra pass for her to see the whole thing herself.

(will be edited, with more added later, or will do another post with more links)